(June 17, 2013 at 4:41 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(June 16, 2013 at 3:43 pm)CleanShavenJesus Wrote: You're not helping your case.

How so, these people would corrupt God's people, remember the tree of Good and Evil in the Garden and the results it brought, God wanted His people to avoid the same disaster, but again not to be.

Believing in talking snakes isn't actually helping your case either.

(June 17, 2013 at 3:14 pm)Zarith Wrote: Typical theist circumlocution.

Actually the typical theist response is to embrace the magic.
(God works in mysterious ways...)

Quote:You attempt to inject "dark ages" and "magic" into my argument when it was not contingent on those, then go on to argue that a metaphysical sort of god is logically possible, when this does not address the question I posed.

Your question is based on the idea of a Darkages magic God that is required to remain a mystery, one who's kryptonite is science and the understanding of physics. When in fact the very same God put these processes in this universe, so my question was why would He be unable to use these processes just because we have come to understand them?

Quote:On top of this, I know that you believe in more specific and more numerous claims about God than can be supported with the arguments in question, but you choose not to defend those claims, choosing instead to regurgitate a poorly-formulated version of the first cause argument, when the point of the thread was that these very types of arguments are not necessary and won't prove what you want them to prove.

Not familiar with the first cause arguement sport. I asked a simple question one you have failed to answer. If God is the God of creation then science becomes a study on how God does things. So again the question becomes why would the God of creation be bann from using the processes we have labled in our understanding of 'science?'

Quote:If you want to talk about the dark ages and the role of the church during these times, that is a conversation I and (I suspect) many atheists will be happy to have with you, but it's probably best suited for a different thread.

I will give you the benfit of the doubt here, and say many have had the darkages arguement here with me, and there is a reason it is not the goto you feel it to be. we've also done Nazi's, Genesis, The Ark creation, Jews, Human sacerfice, The Old law, Moses, Jewish slaves of Egypt, Just did another round of dinosaur bones.. What ever you think you got, let's talk about it. Ask your questions and do your worst.

Links or it didn't happen

(June 17, 2013 at 6:04 pm)Drich Wrote:

(June 17, 2013 at 3:14 pm)Zarith Wrote: Typical theist circumlocution.

Actually the typical theist response is to embrace the magic.
(God works in mysterious ways...)

You are correct, that is another go-to favorite.

Quote:

Quote:You attempt to inject "dark ages" and "magic" into my argument when it was not contingent on those, then go on to argue that a metaphysical sort of god is logically possible, when this does not address the question I posed.

Your question is based on the idea of a Darkages magic God that is required to remain a mystery, one who's kryptonite is science and the understanding of physics. When in fact the very same God put these processes in this universe, so my question was why would He be unable to use these processes just because we have come to understand them?

This is nonsense. I never said anything of the sort. I argued that in order to make the jump from general metaphysical god to specific god, you have to appeal to revelation or scripture, and that if you believe in these, then metaphysical arguments are unnecessary. Do you disagree?

(June 17, 2013 at 6:04 pm)Drich Wrote:

Quote:On top of this, I know that you believe in more specific and more numerous claims about God than can be supported with the arguments in question, but you choose not to defend those claims, choosing instead to regurgitate a poorly-formulated version of the first cause argument, when the point of the thread was that these very types of arguments are not necessary and won't prove what you want them to prove.

Not familiar with the first cause arguement sport. I asked a simple question one you have failed to answer. If God is the God of creation then science becomes a study on how God does things. So again the question becomes why would the God of creation be bann from using the processes we have labled in our understanding of 'science?'

Of course I didn't answer it, because you put words in my mouth and then ask why I said them. You are asking me whether or not the notion of some abstract god is compatible with observed reality. The answer to this question has no bearing on the argument that I made.

(June 17, 2013 at 6:04 pm)Drich Wrote:

Quote:If you want to talk about the dark ages and the role of the church during these times, that is a conversation I and (I suspect) many atheists will be happy to have with you, but it's probably best suited for a different thread.

I will give you the benfit of the doubt here, and say many have had the darkages arguement here with me, and there is a reason it is not the goto you feel it to be. we've also done Nazi's, Genesis, The Ark creation, Jews, Human sacerfice, The Old law, Moses, Jewish slaves of Egypt, Just did another round of dinosaur bones.. What ever you think you got, let's talk about it. Ask your questions and do your worst.

If you're just going to respond to stuff I'm not saying, I'll take a pass, thanks.

Don't mess with Zarith, he knows what he's talking about

Thanks and welcome back from your vacation ideologue

Thanks man

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damn it! I wanted to be the first person to give you rep but someone got there just before me...stupid girl.

(June 17, 2013 at 6:46 am)orogenicman Wrote:

Quote:Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded. "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.

Now, I don't know how you interpret that paragraph - apparently it is against your religion to ask questions in Sunday school - but it is clear to me that Moses ordered women and children to be murdered , and virgins to be given to his men to do with as they like. You apparently don't have a problem with any of this. Imagine the outrage had it been Obama that made the order.

Yes, I fully understand that we are talking about a different time, and a different culture from today. And dude, that's exactly the friggin point, isn't it? The god of the Bible was a genicidal sociopath. Most normal people don't subscribe to that sort of thing these days. YOU can't cherry pick the bible by only accepting only what you believe to be the good parts and ignoring the rest. It's the same friggin attitude that got pedophile Catholic priests in trouble the world over. It's the problem with the entire Judeo-Christian religion. Your entire history is one of repeated atrocities followed by unabashed denial. It took Rome 400 years to apologize for what it did to Galileo. 400 friggin years. And it has never apologized for the genocide that occurred during the Crusades.

Shall I continue?

Yes, please continue. I'd like you to build a few more strawmen before I school you on simple chronological reading comprehension. (I'm not making any God claims, just claims about what's written)
Are you up for this game?

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(June 17, 2013 at 1:13 pm)CleanShavenJesus Wrote:

1 Samuel 15:3 Wrote:This is what the Lord Almighty says ... 'Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.'

The Lord said it. Right? Okay.

Ezekiel 22:28 Wrote:And her prophets have daubed them with untempered morter, seeing vanity, and divining lies unto them, saying, Thus saith the Lord God, when the Lord hath not spoken.

So, the Lord told them to savagely murder every living thing in sight in Samuel, which could depict God as evil. But in Ezekiel, in a different situation, He apparently never actually told the people to do any of the things they did. So they acted on their own, and God was not the one who told them to do such acts.

I'm asking honestly: what am I missing?

I'm not sure, you have everything up there, what exactly is your conclusion? (you seem to not be able to register the first verse as a lie, am I correct?)

(June 17, 2013 at 4:06 pm)orogenicman Wrote:

(June 17, 2013 at 3:25 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Show me evidence of unlawful killing. I see none.
Show me evidence of rape. I see none.

Where is the justification for your alternate interpretation of the text?

The evidence is in the words Moses allegedly (according to your bible) himself spoke to his men. Oh, and you didn't answer my question. Why am I not surprised?

The evidence says the opposite of what you're claiming. You keep repeating it like you have word blindness. This is hilarious.

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(June 17, 2013 at 4:37 pm)Zarith Wrote: They believe it is just because God supposedly willed it. If God willed for a woman to be raped, beheaded, and then set on fire; it would be just, by definition. There is no reasoning with anybody like this; it is morality by fiat.

You too lol. If no one was raped according to the evidence you are presenting how am I supposed to be defending rape?

Are you seriously reading words that aren't there? Is that the extent of your delusion?

I'm finding this unbelievable. How many times can you guys argue that black is white.

(June 18, 2013 at 1:24 am)fr0d0 Wrote:

(June 17, 2013 at 4:06 pm)orogenicman Wrote: The evidence is in the words Moses allegedly (according to your bible) himself spoke to his men. Oh, and you didn't answer my question. Why am I not surprised?

The evidence says the opposite of what you're claiming. You keep repeating it like you have word blindness. This is hilarious.

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(June 17, 2013 at 4:37 pm)Zarith Wrote: They believe it is just because God supposedly willed it. If God willed for a woman to be raped, beheaded, and then set on fire; it would be just, by definition. There is no reasoning with anybody like this; it is morality by fiat.

You too lol. If no one was raped according to the evidence you are presenting how am I supposed to be defending rape?

Are you seriously reading words that aren't there? Is that the extent of your delusion?

I'm finding this unbelievable. How many times can you guys argue that black is white.

And you keep denying it as if it isn't written in your Bible. And that is just sad.