I just had a thought concerning the concept of an after life. First of all,I hope there is an afterlife I mean who wouldn't want an eternal play ground. With that said while thinking I think the concept of an afterlife actually is illogical.

1. It is only correct to assume that a higher power or deity of some kind is kinda a prerequisite for an afterlife. For it would require one to create another existence outside of this one.(correct me if I am wrong.)

2. Because of premise one, this poses a interesting issue. What winds up happening is you create a redundancy. Why have an afterlife at all. Why couldn't the current reality be like the after life? Why separate existences? Now to the theistic religion this is even more problematic because those questions carry more weight. How this happens is because the god is given certain characteristics. Most of them perfect intellect, if they have perfect intellect even with free will. Why create this crappier reality and then have an afterlife?

Sorry if it is not concise, however I just wanted to see if this thought path has been entertained before.
(I am not counting reincarnation)

Some of the real problems with the afterlife concept are:

1) Identity issue: Given that an orthodox Christian belief about Heaven is that you are not able to sin there because sin cannot be in the presence of God (or something along those lines). And given that, you are by necessity restricted on what you can do and how you can be. This - along with the problem of if/how the soul is actually you - shows that it can't really be said to be you who is in Heaven. No amount of "power" circumvents this issue.


2) Given the objective is for them to go to Heaven, creating them in Heaven to begin with resolves all problems and since many Christians think that you still retain your free will in Heaven, God doing as he supposedly did is contrary to the better option. The only real attempt at a response to this that I'm aware of is the soul-building theodicy, and I find it both silly and ignores God's omnipotence.


Also, the sort of Libertarian free will dominant among theists and theistic philosophers - and necessary for moral blame to not be on God - isn't even a coherent position in philosophy currently.

We are babies before we become adults. Perhaps you must be manifest physically prior to eternal endurance.

(July 18, 2013 at 10:17 pm)bladevalant546 Wrote: I just had a thought concerning the concept of an after life. First of all,I hope there is an afterlife I mean who wouldn't want an eternal play ground. With that said while thinking I think the concept of an afterlife actually is illogical.

I don't want an eternal playground - so that's one.

(July 18, 2013 at 10:17 pm)bladevalant546 Wrote: 1. It is only correct to assume that a higher power or deity of some kind is kinda a prerequisite for an afterlife. For it would require one to create another existence outside of this one.(correct me if I am wrong.)

You are wrong. You are considering only the narrow Christian outlook on afterlife and shutting your imagination off to different possibilities out there. Maybe multiverse hypothesis is true and when we die here, we wake up in another universe. Maybe this life is a shared dream and when we die here, we wake up to our real life. Maybe we don't need another existence outside this one at all - maybe our consciousness simply exists in nature after our bodies are gone. All these are possible without there being any higher power.

(July 18, 2013 at 10:17 pm)bladevalant546 Wrote: 2. Because of premise one, this poses a interesting issue. What winds up happening is you create a redundancy. Why have an afterlife at all. Why couldn't the current reality be like the after life? Why separate existences? Now to the theistic religion this is even more problematic because those questions carry more weight. How this happens is because the god is given certain characteristics. Most of them perfect intellect, if they have perfect intellect even with free will. Why create this crappier reality and then have an afterlife?

Most religions answer it by saying that 1) this life is a test and b) its our own fault that its crappy. But the simple reason is - that's what religions are for. To make you think that this life is crappy and not worth having, but you have to tough it out anyway because there is a better one coming later on. This way, when it asks you to give this life as payment for the supposed afterlife, you'll happily do it.

Sure it's not logical, because as far as we can prove, existence of our consciousness rely on our brains. When ones brain's functioning no more, so ends ones existence. But If you think it's there is no logical consistency in the idea of afterlife, I have to disagree, since I can think of a perfectly consistent afterlife myself.(I could elaborate on that but I won't. I am thinking of creating my own religion one day and I don't want complications with copyright issue. )

Quote:1. It is only correct to assume that a higher power or deity of some kind is kinda a prerequisite for an afterlife. For it would require one to create another existence outside of this one.(correct me if I am wrong.)

Not necessarily. There could be a coincidental parallel universe that captures the spirits of people of this universe. (Heey, just as crazy...)

Since your premise is not necessarily true, the life and afterlife is not logically inconsistent. And even if the case was that there is was higher being, I can cite loads of reasons that would make afterlife necessary. Maybe it's a test, or maybe this world is the creation process. "Perhaps this world is simply the Egg of the next kalpa? Lein vokiin? Would you stop the next world from being born?" said The Paarthurnax* one day(well, actually several times) to me, maybe he is right...

*For boring people: Paarthurnax is a wise old dragon from the game Elder Scrolls V - Skyrim (and he tends to mix English with Dragon Language)

Good answers thanks for the new perspectives. I did not think of the universe aspect my self. Hence why I asked to share different points of view. I only been in the mind set I am for about a year, so I still have "religious" thinking.

Trust me I know of the whole test thingy, however it seem to befall to a cognitive issue not to see the redundancy behind that. I do find the waking up in another life thing interesting, who really knows after death. Thanks for the answers and picking mine apart. I am using new software for my old brain so it is still healing from religious dogma and perspectives.

Your premise is not true. I don't have to explain why it isn't because you never explained why it is. I don't know why it is correct to assume that.

(July 19, 2013 at 3:32 am)Gilgamesh Wrote: Your premise is not true. I don't have to explain why it isn't because you never explained why it is. I don't know why it is correct to assume that.

Read above post, also I posted the thought for the sake of correction. I like being wrong sometimes, you learn by being wrong....or research.

(July 19, 2013 at 12:58 pm)bladevalant546 Wrote:

(July 19, 2013 at 3:32 am)Gilgamesh Wrote: Your premise is not true. I don't have to explain why it isn't because you never explained why it is. I don't know why it is correct to assume that.

Read above post, also I posted the thought for the sake of correction. I like being wrong sometimes, you learn by being wrong....or research.

“What do you think?" shouted Razumihin, louder than ever, "you think I am attacking them for talking nonsense? Not a bit! I like them to talk nonsense. That's man's one privilege over all creation. Through error you come to the truth! I am a man because I err! You never reach any truth without making fourteen mistakes and very likely a hundred and fourteen. And a fine thing, too, in its way; but we can't even make mistakes on our own account! Talk nonsense, but talk your own nonsense, and I'll kiss you for it. To go wrong in one's own way is better than to go right in someone else's. In the first case you are a man, in the second you're no better than a bird. Truth won't escape you, but life can be cramped. There have been examples. And what are we doing now? In science, development, thought, invention, ideals, aims, liberalism, judgment, experience and everything, everything, everything, we are still in the preparatory class at school. We prefer to live on other people's ideas, it's what we are used to! Am I right, am I right?" cried Razumihin, pressing and shaking the two ladies' hands.”
― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment

There is an afterlife, but unfortunately it involves decomposition and a worm food fest.