(July 16, 2013 at 1:58 am)k2490 Wrote: I was recently hospitalized due to mental health issues and on the way to the hospital the paramedic in the back was like "What helps me is God,he gives me so much joy.I suggest you try god,not that occult stuff but the bible believers"Give it a try what do you have to lose.

My condolences on your hospitalization and I hope that you have found some stability. What everyone does not understand is that the power is within you and not some external, supernatural force. Find that candlelight and let it grow within you, which sometimes can be difficult to find in the cave of despair. Add some light to those moments when you find yourself in that cave and try to peep out and see what the shadows are hiding. The shadow can be very comforting and alluring, but remember that you have the answers within you.

It was when I realized this, that I discovered hope was within me and when I broke from the clutches of depression, anxiety, and drug/alcohol abuse.

I did not need AA nor religion, just a good therapist to guide me to that light within me. I promise you that it is inside you, but you may need some guidance to locate it and let your phoenix emerge from within you.

May kindness and stability enter your life.

--SG

(July 16, 2013 at 2:15 am)Godschild Wrote: What pressure do you feel, I mean what's the feeling like.

Just of the top of my head, I would say it's peer pressure and it feels like other people telling you to believe what they do when you didn't ask for their opinion.

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(July 17, 2013 at 9:38 am)Drich Wrote: When is the best time to approach someone about being a member of an auto club? when they are broken down on the side of the road, or when they feel like their car is dependable and has never broken down?

So you agree that, like towing companies, evangelists use misfortune to make sales? The claim isn't that it's not effective, the claim is that it isn't morally admirable.

(July 17, 2013 at 9:38 am)Drich Wrote: The best time to offer a free towing service is when someone needs a tow, not when they are driving by.

Don't you mean it's the best time to jack up the price? What towing company offers free towing to the stranded? That would be a towing charity.

(July 22, 2013 at 9:13 am)Esquilax Wrote: Why not try transmitting a message with some actual content? It might help; so far your message has just been varying shades of "I'm right!" over and over.

Like what? i asked you what you needed for proof? And I never once said "I'm right."

(July 22, 2013 at 9:13 am)Esquilax Wrote: Life is proof of life. Nothing else entails.

Well, then how do you explain "Life"? Science tells us: there was a beginning; there will be an end. But, "they" don't know what happened before, or what will happen after. What's you scientific, rational explanation?

(July 22, 2013 at 9:13 am)Esquilax Wrote: And it's not the same with christians? I can't go out and find a million different interpretations of the bible, the religion, everything? The difference is that when presented with a difference of opinion, the atheist is honest and just accepts that we won't all agree on everything. You guys so often just dismiss any other viewpoints, assert that yours is right, and... that's it.

Don't pretend like your side is so unified, dude.

Is that a joke? We all believe in God...in your case(s) WhoTF knows?

(July 22, 2013 at 9:13 am)Esquilax Wrote: If you want to prove something to be an objective fact... yeah, you will be held accountable to proving that it exists. Sorry, that's just the way claims work. Now, without any form of example it's hard to really respond to this, but since atheism isn't making a truth claim, only a belief one, then we aren't required to provide proof. Unless you want us to prove that we don't believe in a god?

Meanwhile, you're claiming that god does exist, and that you know it. Not just that you believe it. Claims to knowledge require evidence: if you can't show it, you don't know it, to quote Aronra.

Unless you and the others can explain every mystery in Life, the burden of proof is on you that God doesn't exist.

(July 22, 2013 at 9:13 am)Esquilax Wrote: And you will continue to be wrong.

Good. "Spiritual reasoning" is just a nicer way of saying "unsubstantiated, loudly asserted nothings."

So again, what you don't see is proof that it doesn't exist? When you read your statement back...don't you feel a little embarrassed?

(July 22, 2013 at 9:13 am)Esquilax Wrote: Also note that I didn't once resort to ridicule, I just asked what makes you so sure of your position.

You come damn near it.... but what makes you so sure of your position? How can you [also] make statements w/o knowing? At least I have personal experience to prove my Faith. What do you have? Nothing...literally nothing.

(July 22, 2013 at 9:13 am)Esquilax Wrote: Perhaps your bible writers should have constructed a better fictional canon for their main character. As it stands, the whole thing is riddled with inconsistencies.

Better yet, perhaps you apologists could construct some decent arguments. Pointing out the inconsistencies in the shit you spout isn't the same as an unprovoked attack.

And the shit you spout isn't an attack? Or is it ridicule of something you don't understand? Just because Einstein discovered the theory of relativity, doesn't mean YOU would've ever found it...or understood it!

Yet you BELIEVE IT? Or maybe he is wrong? Would you know that? Do a search on how many scentific facts over time were proven wrong!

So, your argument is less effective than mine! Because you just don't know!

(July 22, 2013 at 9:13 am)Esquilax Wrote: Once again, personal experience isn't evidence.

To you. But you don't know the way to a personal experience with God, because your bias and closed-mindedness blocks you from it.

(July 22, 2013 at 9:13 am)Esquilax Wrote: You act like there's never been a religious deconvert. What would you say to all the devout religious followers that have become atheists? All the members of the Clergy Project, for example?

I only know of TWO semi-famous clergy that became an atheist. One died of cancer not to long ago, the other is dying from cancer.

If any clergy, or religious has turned to atheism, I would think there was nothing there to begin with.

But, this isn't about religion. It's about "personal" relationships with God. We are NOT saved in groups. We are saved indiviually, by ONE individual. Jesus Christ! Amen!

(July 23, 2013 at 2:23 pm)ronedee Wrote: Unless you and the others can explain every mystery in Life, the burden of proof is on you that God doesn't exist.

That is not how the burden of proof works. This has doubtless been explained to you many times, but I will repeat it again. It is you that is making the positive claim that a god exists, we are simply reacting to that claim and saying we don't believe you. It is up to you to provide evidence for your claim, we don't have to provide evidence that you are wrong. Lets do an example: I say to you: 'I have a real living unicorn in my pocket, prove that I don't'. You see how ridiculous that is. You could claim anything is real if the only basis for believing in something is that you can't prove it doesn't exist.

(July 23, 2013 at 2:23 pm)ronedee Wrote: You come damn near it.... but what makes you so sure of your position? How can you [also] make statements w/o knowing? At least I have personal experience to prove my Faith. What do you have? Nothing...literally nothing.

There is plenty of evidence, reliable, valid, accurate, peer reviewed, published evidence. Just because you choose to ignore its existence does not mean it doesn't exist.

(July 23, 2013 at 2:23 pm)ronedee Wrote: Do a search on how many scentific facts over time were proven wrong!

'Proven wrong' would be the wrong phrase. A better phrase would be 'corrected'. There are no absolute facts in science. We can be reasonable certain to a degree but science never claims total knowledge.
So your basis for believing that science is wrong, is that it has been wrong in the past? Have you not been wrong in the past about facts? But despite this, you still trust your own judgement?

(July 23, 2013 at 3:52 pm)Rationalman Wrote: That is not how the burden of proof works. This has doubtless been explained to you many times, but I will repeat it again. It is you that is making the positive claim that a god exists, we are simply reacting to that claim and saying we don't believe you. It is up to you to provide evidence for your claim, we don't have to provide evidence that you are wrong. Lets do an example: I say to you: 'I have a real living unicorn in my pocket, prove that I don't'. You see how ridiculous that is. You could claim anything is real if the only basis for believing in something is that you can't prove it doesn't exist.

And how many people "say" they have unicorns in their pockets besides you? 2? 1? No...the burden is on YOU to tell us, "THE MAJORITY" why there is no God!

(July 23, 2013 at 3:52 pm)Rationalman Wrote: There is plenty of evidence, reliable, valid, accurate, peer reviewed, published evidence. Just because you choose to ignore its existence does not mean it doesn't exist.

And you've experienced all these "answers" for yourself? And it's ALL TRUE? w/o a doubt in your mind? Let me enlighten you...Anything involving humans is suspect! ANYTHING!

(July 23, 2013 at 3:52 pm)Rationalman Wrote: 'Proven wrong' would be the wrong phrase. A better phrase would be 'corrected'. There are no absolute facts in science. We can be reasonable certain to a degree but science never claims total knowledge.
So your basis for believing that science is wrong, is that it has been wrong in the past? Have you not been wrong in the past about facts? But despite this, you still trust your own judgement?

Some haven't been "corrected"...just proven [wrong]!

So, there are no "absolute facts"...but the "fact" remains there is no God?

Brilliant! What was I thinking?

Quote:No...the burden is on YOU to tell us, "THE MAJORITY" why there is no God!

You don't get to shrug off the burden of proof once you surpass a certain number of people making the positive claim. It only means that the majority has to prove their collective assertion.

There is no evidence that your God exists, so it is your job to prove that he's there in spite of there being no trace of him. Because, after all, we're not trying to prove he's not there. We're asking you to prove that he is. We'll accept that he's there once you prove it. Every time a Christian is asked to do this and fails (100% of you, so far), it only makes your claims look all the more stupid and nonsensical.

(July 23, 2013 at 4:12 pm)ronedee Wrote: And how many people "say" they have unicorns in their pockets besides you? 2? 1? No...the burden is on YOU to tell us, "THE MAJORITY" why there is no God!

Its irrelevant how many people say something, the burden of proof is still on me to prove that i have a real unicorn in my pocket. In the same way the, you have to prove your god exists.

(July 23, 2013 at 4:12 pm)ronedee Wrote: And you've experienced all these "answers" for yourself? And it's ALL TRUE? w/o a doubt in your mind? Let me enlighten you...Anything involving humans is suspect! ANYTHING!

So you are saying that I have to personally conduct every experiment ever done in order to understand how it works and agree with its conclusions?
Anything involving humans is suspect, that maybe true. But then that applies to your god as well.

(July 23, 2013 at 4:12 pm)ronedee Wrote: So, there are no "absolute facts"...but the "fact" remains there is no God?

I don't ever remember claiming that there is no god. It is not a known fact that God exists and it never will be. This is because the claim cannot be falsified in any way. That is to say that you cannot test for the existence of god. As any other experiment in the world will tell you, if you can't test a hypothesis, its not a good hypothesis.

(July 23, 2013 at 4:28 pm)Ryantology Wrote:

Quote:No...the burden is on YOU to tell us, "THE MAJORITY" why there is no God!

You don't get to shrug off the burden of proof once you surpass a certain number of people making the positive claim. It only means that the majority has to prove their collective assertion.

There is no evidence that your God exists, so it is your job to prove that he's there in spite of there being no trace of him. Because, after all, we're not trying to prove he's not there. We're asking you to prove that he is. We'll accept that he's there once you prove it. Every time a Christian is asked to do this and fails (100% of you, so far), it only makes your claims look all the more stupid and nonsensical.

I beg to differ my beer-drinking-buddy! But your lack of understanding is the problem.

The "stupid" & "nonsenical" is saying that life just popped into existence.

If God choses to be hidden (to YOU), there must be a reason.

But for those who love God..... He is present in EVERYTHING!

(July 23, 2013 at 4:41 pm)ronedee Wrote: The "stupid" & "nonsenical" is saying that life just popped into existence.

I might be wrong here, but I have never heard anyone except theists, claiming that life just popped into existence, when they are attempting to explain what they think atheists and scientists think.

(July 23, 2013 at 12:26 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote:

(July 16, 2013 at 2:15 am)Godschild Wrote: What pressure do you feel, I mean what's the feeling like.

Just of the top of my head, I would say it's peer pressure and it feels like other people telling you to believe what they do when you didn't ask for their opinion.

And you're positive they were not trying to offer help and comfort, they may not have known k2490 was an atheist.

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(July 23, 2013 at 5:19 am)AnunZi Wrote:

(July 23, 2013 at 3:30 am)Godschild Wrote: Two nuclear engineers, one who is respected around the country, the other his father, another who works for ORNL and publishes papers for peer review for scientific journals. Another a college professor. I've studied with these men, even taught one when he was a youth.

Yet still they think blind faith, in something with absolutely zero supporting evidence is a good thing? Personally I simply cannot reconcile that view with anything supported by the peer review process or scientific method. Its just plain hypocrisy.


I cannot help but wonder what their view points would be if they lived in a secular country, where being an atheist wasn’t viewed with hate and bile. (I’m assuming you live in America here, please correct me if I am wrong)

I do live in America. What I don't understand is why atheist can't accept that Christians can be brilliant scientist, if you were to sit down and talk to these men you would be amazed at their level of intelligence, the youth I taught was 22 when he received his PHD. in nuclear engineering.