(July 25, 2013 at 5:48 am)enrico Wrote: I was thinking to give you one more kudos but after your comment i withdraw my offer.

Y U no wuv me no mo' ?

(July 25, 2013 at 6:36 am)Gilgamesh Wrote:

(July 17, 2013 at 10:24 am)enrico Wrote: Two distant things and yet some people with blind faith say that they believe in evolution.
Is that possible? Does it make any sense?
Usually blind faith is associated with religion but not always.
Here i am talking about some atheist.
Many atheist believe that by a strange and mysterious combination one born as a human out of nothing due to him-her and other born as plants, worms, insects or animals also out of nothing.
In this way there is no evolution of consciousness.
A worm with his primitive consciousness came in existence just for pure bad luck on the other hand a human being came in existence with his-her more developed consciousness just by good luck.
So where is the evolution of conscience that suppose to be build up as the life progress from lower to higher form of lives?
Is perhaps that we born as humans because humanity has developed for long time and we follow this wave of development?
So if this is true then we are not responsible for our development as the wave of collective progress moves us along anyway.
What a wishful thinking to believe that our consciousness is build up in just a lifetime thanks also to the progress that humans have done since human existence.
Sorry but the very science related to evolution that many believe in contradict this blind faith therefore anyone believing in blind chances has really nothing to do with evolution.

... u wot, m8?

I think he talk too professional us for.

(July 25, 2013 at 9:04 am)Esquilax Wrote: So, essentially your response to my asking you for proof of your completely bald, by fiat assertions is more by fiat assertions?

Careful, Esq. You're beginning to understand the mind of enrico.

(July 25, 2013 at 9:04 am)Esquilax Wrote:

(July 25, 2013 at 5:48 am)enrico Wrote: Dear Esq., you got to understand what is the consciousness and her role in the life of every creature.
Animals are driven by instinct while humans although they have some instinct they also have free will.
With the free will you are able to do the right thing and reach human emancipation.
The sperm whale or any other animal have still to reach the stage in which the free will will take over.

So, essentially your response to my asking you for proof of your completely bald, by fiat assertions is more by fiat assertions?
How do you know all this? Knowledge is demonstrated, not just asserted. How do you know whales are driven solely by instinct? How can you say they have no consciousness or free will? Whales spend their entire lives hanging out in the oceans like a boss, they seem pretty freaking smart to me. Now, don't just assert your position again: demonstrate it. What makes you sure of this? Once again, have you even been near a sperm whale?

You are the one who say that whales are driven solely by instinct.
I instead said that whales are driven by instinct.
That does not mean that a bit of consciousness is there and got to be there if evolution is possible as in case of human evolution of the past.
You see, you are not reading my previous posts and then you come up with your own judgments.
In my previous post i also made clear that animals have a limited consciousness as you can see below.

Sperm whale brain is 5-6 time bigger and yet her consciousness is so much smaller.
A worm with his primitive consciousness came in existence just for pure bad luck on the other hand a human being came in existence with his-her more developed consciousness just by good luck.
Anyway going back to consciousness.
How consciousness can develop?
Living as animal or lower species like plants take ages and ages as free will is very limited.
Free will development work like an avalanche.
In the beginning it move very very slow but as it move it take more and more speed.
That is exactly how evolution work.
It start in the mineral world.
You can see that the energy in the uranium tend to escape in order to get out of his bondage with the matter.
In the vegetable life.
You can see the climbing plants moving in search of better condition.
In the animal life the same thing but as the life evolve into human life everything goes faster and faster as the avalanche of evolution build up more and more consciousness.

(July 26, 2013 at 10:31 am)enrico Wrote: Sperm whale brain is 5-6 time bigger and yet her consciousness is so much smaller.
[color=#FF6347][color=#DAA520]

Well duh. You can't tell how smart something is just by brain size. You have to compare brain to body ratio just to get started.

Enough with that though, it's not a good indicator. There are some humans that have huge brains but with a mentally retarded intellect. There are other humans that have brains almost only half that size that are considered genius intelligent.

Males have on average larger brains than the average female, but males have not been found to be more intelligent than females in any test given to measure intelligence.

Dolphins have brains smaller than humans but their neurons are much more densely packed than ours. Dolphins have been shown to have in a sense "names" for other Dolphins and have been recorded talking about a Dolphin that was not present to other Dolphins.

Maybe they're smarter than us. Who the fuck knows?

Someone ask for some Blind Faith?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOZ5VcQIiFc

Baker and Clapton being boss is the only blind faith anyone needs.

That is all.

(July 26, 2013 at 10:31 am)enrico Wrote: You are the one who say that whales are driven solely by instinct.
I instead said that whales are driven by instinct.
That does not mean that a bit of consciousness is there and got to be there if evolution is possible as in case of human evolution of the past.
You see, you are not reading my previous posts and then you come up with your own judgments.
In my previous post i also made clear that animals have a limited consciousness as you can see below.

Sperm whale brain is 5-6 time bigger and yet her consciousness is so much smaller.
A worm with his primitive consciousness came in existence just for pure bad luck on the other hand a human being came in existence with his-her more developed consciousness just by good luck.
Anyway going back to consciousness.
How consciousness can develop?
Living as animal or lower species like plants take ages and ages as free will is very limited.
Free will development work like an avalanche.
In the beginning it move very very slow but as it move it take more and more speed.
That is exactly how evolution work.
It start in the mineral world.
You can see that the energy in the uranium tend to escape in order to get out of his bondage with the matter.
In the vegetable life.
You can see the climbing plants moving in search of better condition.
In the animal life the same thing but as the life evolve into human life everything goes faster and faster as the avalanche of evolution build up more and more consciousness.

Are you suggesting that uranium's energy wants a more desirable environment for itself and that it's evolutionary? The word you're looking for is chemistry.

(July 26, 2013 at 10:31 am)enrico Wrote: You are the one who say that whales are driven solely by instinct.
I instead said that whales are driven by instinct.
That does not mean that a bit of consciousness is there and got to be there if evolution is possible as in case of human evolution of the past.
You see, you are not reading my previous posts and then you come up with your own judgments.
In my previous post i also made clear that animals have a limited consciousness as you can see below.

But my point wasn't what you said, but why you felt qualified to say it at all: the bane of intelligent discourse is bald assertions like yours. I get what you're saying, what I'm asking is what evidence- if any- have you used to come to that conclusion. The question is why you believe this, and you keep coming back by reiterating what you believe.

This is not helpful.

(July 27, 2013 at 4:21 am)Esquilax Wrote:

(July 26, 2013 at 10:31 am)enrico Wrote: You are the one who say that whales are driven solely by instinct.
I instead said that whales are driven by instinct.
That does not mean that a bit of consciousness is there and got to be there if evolution is possible as in case of human evolution of the past.
You see, you are not reading my previous posts and then you come up with your own judgments.
In my previous post i also made clear that animals have a limited consciousness as you can see below.

But my point wasn't what you said, but why you felt qualified to say it at all: the bane of intelligent discourse is bald assertions like yours. I get what you're saying, what I'm asking is what evidence- if any- have you used to come to that conclusion. The question is why you believe this, and you keep coming back by reiterating what you believe. This is not helpful.

I thought it was clear enough why i believe this and what evidence there is since i mention in several occasion how the tantric meditation can open up the hidden consciousness.
Can a whale do meditation?
So the only other way to develop more consciousness will be to take a human body once she can exit the animal constriction and bondage.
In the meantime she will have to wait and live under the constriction of instinct and her limited free will.
Now don't take me wrong and assume that the only way to get more consciousness is to practice tantric yoga.
As the saying.........ALL THE ROAD LEAD TO ROME.
You can develop more consciousness by leading a good life and learn day by day but this procedure take long long time and require many reincarnation.
That is why yoga was given in order to accelerate the process and reduce the torture of a life stuck in a body.

(July 27, 2013 at 9:39 am)enrico Wrote: I thought it was clear enough why i believe this and what evidence there is since i mention in several occasion how the tantric meditation can open up the hidden consciousness.

Again, this is what you believe, not evidence to support the claim. Now, it might be a different thing, but it's still one of the assertions you subscribe to, and not a framework telling us why it is so.

Example: I have a belief that the earth is round. When asked why, I can bring up the motions of heavenly bodies in the earth's sky, how access to space has allowed us to visually confirm the three dimensional shape of the planet, etc etc. What you have done here is the equivalent of me, upon being asked to support my assertion, simply saying "I've already told you what evidence I have: the earth is round."