(August 24, 2013 at 9:10 am)ThomM Wrote: Actually - the Mythical christ - in the Bible - did BREAK the laws of his religion and so was NOT perfect to begin with.

Not all laws were important. Jesus usually mentioned the "laws of Moses" for those.

(August 24, 2013 at 9:10 am)ThomM Wrote: The word "sin" however - in this context - is a meaningless word

In religions - sin is an offense against a god. There being no gods proven to exist - there is NO such offense to establish.

There's nothing to prove God doesn't exist.

(August 24, 2013 at 9:10 am)ThomM Wrote: If you choose to use the bible - and the actions of the "god" in the bible to establish sin - the god CREATED evil - murdered - and performed all sorts of EVIL acts - AND said everything was "GOOD". So - with a god as described - how could one offend a depraved monster like the god of the bible and actually commit a "sin".

According to who? Men?

When ancient men heard thunder they thought God was pissed at them!

And if someone wanted to murder a whole town? Why not tell everyone God said to do it? Perfect alibi!

(August 24, 2013 at 9:10 am)ThomM Wrote: Now - if the god is "all knowing - past - present - and future" as the religion claimed - everything that happens and happened was already known by the god BEFORE it happened - and therefore NONE of it can be changed to something the god did not know. S0 - since EVERYTHING must be pre-ordained to have an all knowing god - then the story was not of FREE WILL - since no one can OPT to do something the god does not know.

Just because you "know" your baby will cry doesn't mean you'll make it happen! You just "know" they will!

God's [knowing] means exactly that. This all still needs to play out for our benefit!

(August 24, 2013 at 9:10 am)ThomM Wrote: AS far as saving is concerned - we already know that the FABLE of EDEN is just a MYTH - and did not happen as claimed in the bible - since there were humans on earth long before the beginning of the bible - and the Universe existed Billions of years before the "creation" of 6000 years ago in the bible- THE claim of the god creation in the bible is nothing more than a fraud.

"fraud"? Isn't that a little ignorant? I mean men did write the bible. And anything man touches is suspect.... but I wouldn't throw out the baby with the bath water. The Gospel is the key to understanding the whole concept of God and our salvation.

(August 24, 2013 at 9:10 am)ThomM Wrote: That having been said - why does ANYONE believe this nonsense - it is because they were taught to long before they had a chance to make up their own minds. A rational and educated person would look at the bible as a whole - and religious claims - and LAUGH.

Being rational and educated has little to do with beliefs.

No. I think anyone who "laughed", and believed the bible "nonsense" is someone who: doesn't understand the message of God's mercy and salvation through His own sacrifice; This person would also be a person that relies solely on their own understanding, or bias against religion, and man's transgressions in the name religion. And the lack of physical proof.

But proof to a believer is everywhere!

Not to laugh at, are the actual "good" things the vast majority of people that love God do!

Quote:There's nothing to prove God doesn't exist.

And nothing to prove that he does....which brings up the question of why gullible fools for such bullshit?

Are you so desperate to feel "special?"

(August 24, 2013 at 10:58 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:There's nothing to prove God doesn't exist.

And nothing to prove that he does....which brings up the question of why gullible fools for such bullshit?

Are you so desperate to feel "special?"

No... but I'd love to turn you into a Eunuch with a swipe of this here sword!

(August 24, 2013 at 11:11 pm)ronedee Wrote:

(August 24, 2013 at 10:58 pm)Minimalist Wrote: And nothing to prove that he does....which brings up the question of why gullible fools for such bullshit?

Are you so desperate to feel "special?"

No... but I'd love to turn you into a Eunuch with a swipe of this here sword!

Oh, we're feeling the love right about now. This comment is full of such love.

So, cutting off one's dinghy is a good thing that dog loving sheeple do? Wow, yet another g zeus hugger turning to violence.

Edit: Woops, I capitalized something I should not have.

(August 24, 2013 at 11:11 pm)ronedee Wrote:

(August 24, 2013 at 10:58 pm)Minimalist Wrote: And nothing to prove that he does....which brings up the question of why gullible fools for such bullshit?

Are you so desperate to feel "special?"

No... but I'd love to turn you into a Eunuch with a swipe of this here sword!

Longing for the good old days when the church could gleefully kill its enemies, huh? You fuckers never change. Its why you have to be watched like hawks.

Quote:And nothing to prove that he does....which brings up the question of why gullible fools for such bullshit?

Because God is rational, logical and makes sense of a great many things?

Quote:Are you so desperate to feel "special?"

Surely the people desperate to feel "special" would belong to a small minority group that rejects the views held by the majority?

Quote:Because God is rational, logical and makes sense of a great many things?

I agreee that making up a god to answer all the questions of the universe is a lot easier than learning what really happened. It is what I expect from simpletons.

Quote:Surely the people desperate to feel "special" would belong to a small minority group that rejects the views held by the majority?

Oh, so now you trot out the Argumentum Ad Populum? A billion fools uncritically believe some silly shit and you're fine with that?

I'm sure you fit right in.

(August 25, 2013 at 11:03 am)Minimalist Wrote: I agreee that making up a god to answer all the questions of the universe is a lot easier than learning what really happened. It is what I expect from simpletons.

It's either God or the mystery non-intelligent natural process of some kind you believe in. Either it's the same difference only God would explain all the fine tuning, the physical laws, the complexity of it all, the meaning/purpose of life, morality/freewill and all that stuff. The mystery non-intelligent natural process of some kind is just ummm...





A bit of extra effort is needed to engage with the true mystery of reality.

Quote:Oh, so now you trot out the Argumentum Ad Populum? A billion fools uncritically believe some silly shit and you're fine with that?

I'm sure you fit right in.

So if it's in a minority it has to be about feeling special and if it's in a majority it has to be part of a flock? Why can't it be about a genuine interest in what is actually true, the meaning behind what it's all about? A desire to connect with the source of all things? An interest in reality in the full?

Why can't it be about truth? We reject your claims because they can't be proven to be true. You need to start with evidence, and if you can't provide any that can demonstrate the truth of your claim, then you're most likely wrong.