We aren't mentioning other verses because this is the topic the thread has stuck with for now.

If you'd like, we could discuss the proper care of your legally owned slaves, marrying the victim of your rapes, skull dashing of babies, global genocide, thought crime, and banishing people to eternal torment for refusing to obey/believe in you for starters.

I find the notion of anyone entertaining the idea of stoning any person for such petty things disgusting by the way. I can't believe anyone would be willing to follow a deity that would condone such nonsense.

(September 11, 2013 at 5:36 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(September 11, 2013 at 4:54 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: In this case, you're being told you're wrong because you haven't offered anything but an opinion.

Incidentally, I looked, and the only explanation from you that I found was that the law did not apply to "little" children. Even if that were true, it would still be unjust.

I've given a detailed explanation of the passage several times and you're screwed up at thinking child

GC

I'm sure you have, the problem is I cannot find it. Link?

BTW, to me it's irrelevant whether the passage is referring to minor or adult children. If that's the best justice that your god could muster, he's no god I would worship.

(September 11, 2013 at 4:34 pm)John V Wrote: "Child" in the sense of son or daughter is correct, but this isn't referring to young children, as it says that the child is a drunkard.

Yet, being a drunkard is not the point. Being unruly and not listening, is the point. It doesn't even mention alcohol when it mentions what behaviors cause the parents to resort to this punishment. So, it goes without saying that children of any age could be punished in this manner.

Quote:Second, note who makes the determination - the person's own parents. If you're so bad that your own parents turn you over to be stoned, you just might deserve it.

Because this could never be abused by an unreasonable or abusive parent, as none of those have ever existed.

Quote:ETA: Interestingly, this is the same chapter which forbids battlefield rape and regulates marriage of captives, but somehow you guys always miss that part on your way to the part about stoning children.

Your argument against the Bible commanding horrible atrocities is that it is incredibly inconsistent about doing so. Proves our point, really.

(September 11, 2013 at 5:09 pm)missluckie26 Wrote: <snipped gibberish>
Fishy: You have nothing relevant whatsoever to add to this thread. Why are you still here? Why won't you just go troll someone else or better yet, why haven't you been banned for being a contemptuous foul mouthed little cretin with nothing substantial to add whatsoever? Is this what you want, troll? You're so desperate for attention you seek vocal rebuke from strangers? Good. god. You know, maybe you should be one of those church-going Christians. At least they have to talk to you. Me? I'm out. Peace be with you, may you live long and prosper, fuck off.

Oh, I think that my pointing out your errors is quite relevant.
You still can't produce that evidence, huh?

Like I've said before, bare assertions abound 'round these here parts...

catfish Wrote:Like I've said before, bare assertions abound 'round these here parts...

As do asswipes who aren't worth the breath. You are aware that just cuz you claim victory doesn't mean you won right? Yeah. If that's how you judge your success (by wasting peoples' time and effort then pissing them off to the point they won't reply to you), then whooo-boy I bet you're conceited as fuck. It's dishonest, really.

Shoo fly

There are several threads running semi-concurrently on this forum that are basically of the same form, namely:

Can you explain x in the Bible?

This may take the form of apparent historical inaccuracy, moral indecency, contradictions, implausible stories and accounts and so on and so forth.

If I were to hazard a guess I would suggest that there are some tens if not hundreds of issues raised.

In just about all cases the resident theists have come up with answers - some rather good, some not so much.

Ultimately, for me and possibly other atheists, it comes down to - yes, you have explained x in a semi reasonable way, but, overall, does this strike you as reasonable?

What I mean by reasonable is, I suppose, in the legal sense as in "beyond a reasonable doubt" when deciding on guilt or innocence.

I don't want to raise specific issues as examples because it is too easy to lose focus and answer those rather than looking at the bigger picture.

In some ways it comes down to the simple question of why is God so bad at communicating? Why does so much of this stuff require jumping through hoops to explain it away?

And that ultimately becomes - is it reasonable?

(September 11, 2013 at 5:42 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote:

(September 11, 2013 at 5:36 pm)Godschild Wrote: I've given a detailed explanation of the passage several times and you're screwed up at thinking child

GC

I'm sure you have, the problem is I cannot find it. Link?

BTW, to me it's irrelevant whether the passage is referring to minor or adult children. If that's the best justice that your god could muster, he's no god I would worship.

Again you are not paying attention to the verses, it does not say children.

GC

So an unruly son cannot possibly be of a young age? Can you give us evidence to support this claim?

(September 12, 2013 at 1:43 am)max-greece Wrote: There are several threads running semi-concurrently on this forum that are basically of the same form, namely:

Can you explain x in the Bible?

This may take the form of apparent historical inaccuracy, moral indecency, contradictions, implausible stories and accounts and so on and so forth.

If I were to hazard a guess I would suggest that there are some tens if not hundreds of issues raised.

In just about all cases the resident theists have come up with answers - some rather good, some not so much.

Ultimately, for me and possibly other atheists, it comes down to - yes, you have explained x in a semi reasonable way, but, overall, does this strike you as reasonable?

What I mean by reasonable is, I suppose, in the legal sense as in "beyond a reasonable doubt" when deciding on guilt or innocence.

I don't want to raise specific issues as examples because it is too easy to lose focus and answer those rather than looking at the bigger picture.

In some ways it comes down to the simple question of why is God so bad at communicating? Why does so much of this stuff require jumping through hoops to explain it away?

And that ultimately becomes - is it reasonable?

Actually I do not believe I've jumped through hoops to come to a conclusion on verses in scripture, I have said and still do I do not understand everything in the Bible. I do believe those verses I have explained over the last 3 years and I do believe I've given reasonable responses for them. Yet when the same verses, as the ones in this thread, come up time and again it shows no one was paying attention, or they just want to keep an argument going, or they just do not care. I get tired of explaining the same verses over and over especially these particular verses, because no one in the past has ever argued against what I have said about them. Atheist have certain pet verses they stand on and they do not like seeing their ideas about these verses shot down, well that's to bad IMO. When a right interpretation is made it's right and most atheist just can't stand it and will make foolish statements, or ignore the explanation like it's the plague and then come back with the same verses again. If a Christian shoots down an atheists idea about particular scriptures and they do not come back with a defense, then why should Christians have to keep putting up with the ignorance, maybe what we need is a place to store such conversations so things do not get rehashed and new members can be direct to the arguments, just sayin'.

GC

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(September 12, 2013 at 2:36 am)BadWriterSparty Wrote: So an unruly son cannot possibly be of a young age? Can you give us evidence to support this claim?

What I've been saying has just gone over your head again, can't you just use that brain of your's, it seems to work pretty good. Read the verses and reason, just take the time to reason please.

GC

I did, and you still didn't provide evidence for your claim. Better yet, can you provide us with an exact, specified age for this unruly son?