I get a little turned around when people start reminding me that it's their money that I'm using, especially when the comment is unprovoked. I fail to see how that can't be condescending, but people will justify those remarks however they want after they realize the sour message it sends when they make them.

---

(September 17, 2013 at 1:37 pm)gall Wrote:

(September 17, 2013 at 1:32 pm)Creed of Heresy Wrote: Exactly, I have to help pay for your pay, and benefits, and equipment, whether I like it or not. I wouldn't call it presumptuous to say that, I would call it generous to state it as such, especially that I don't go around telling servicemen that I have no choice but to pay for their equipment and their payment and their benefits. Hell, you had to remind me of that before I said it.

And my point was to address Captain's. I don't mind soldiers remaining in country. Not because they're "self employed" but because it means they're not having to risk their damn lives, most likely for a conflict or war that doesn't serve the American people for shit.

But when they're deployed overseas, it's not in my interests, and most likely, it's not in the interests of the vast majority of Americans, either. I get that a lot of soldiers take pride in that they are SERVICEmembers, and I respect them for that, too, but I can't give respect to certain claims they make when they are, unfortunately, patently false, or presumptuous.

There's a fine line between respecting soldiers, and condescending them. I'm happy to say I respect them, and I don't condescend.

You don't pay a soldier respect just for the title do you?

Personally people in my life earn respect just as I have had to with every person I have ever met.

As a body of "soldiers" I do not see them as an individual and I pay not institution respect. No god, religion, creed, political body. They are all of people and I can choose to or not choose to respect the individual and that is as far as it goes. Your actions earn respect or disrespect not your "station" in life. Many people have station they do not deserve and get paid much respect for something they never earned.

Gratitude yes for the service...respect if they earn it. Simple service is not enough. I sure won't be paying homage to the guy signing the request forms or cleaning bathrooms in kansas on base. Sorry but if I do that I would have to do so for anyone driving a bus or a cab or most other service jobs...hell I work in a service job but I can promise when you work in IT even your actions get you no respect no matter how many problems you solve a day for your coworkers that allow them to actually do their jobs. Earned not just given.

Now the true feelings emerge. I agree that there are dirtbags in the service, but we make certain to weed those individuals out from our ranks. I can honestly say that we generally care about what we do in the service, and if you want to see us as opportunists or undeserving of respect or what have you, then that's certainly your prerogative. Just remember these thoughts of yours when a fireman pulls you out of the burning wreckage of a collapsing building someday, or when US Soldiers deter the invasion of hostile forces on friendly soil.

(September 17, 2013 at 1:43 pm)BadWriterSparty Wrote: I get a little turned around when people start reminding me that it's their money that I'm using, especially when the comment is unprovoked. I fail to see how that can't be condescending, but people will justify those remarks however they want after they realize the sour message it sends when they make them.

Sorry that you take this so personally. My opinions are mine alone. I was not acting condescending in my opinion. I cannot control what you think and if my honestly offends you I would rather have that than you liking me for a lie.

(September 17, 2013 at 1:54 pm)gall Wrote:

(September 17, 2013 at 1:43 pm)BadWriterSparty Wrote: I get a little turned around when people start reminding me that it's their money that I'm using, especially when the comment is unprovoked. I fail to see how that can't be condescending, but people will justify those remarks however they want after they realize the sour message it sends when they make them.

Sorry that you take this so personally. My opinions are mine alone. I was not acting condescending in my opinion. I cannot control what you think and if my honestly offends you I would rather have that than you liking me for a lie.

As an Air Force Instructor, I take it very personally. I see all the dirtbags as they enter the Air Force, and it's my job to either shape them up or ship them out. Sure, my role is mainly an academic one, but I still get to be a filter for our new forces so that the bad eggs don't go out there and make a bad name for a service with a proud legacy...even if we do sit in chairs most of the time

Anything an airman does that reflects badly on the Air Force also reflects badly on me.

Well, as I had said, my comment was not directed to anyone here, it was a remark about certain individuals who throw around their service as if it's something that automatically means I should shut up and bow my head in respect and just let them think their opinion overrides all, because they think that their service was entirely one-sided in my favor. If nobody here follows that train of thought, then everyone here is exempt from that grievance. After all, I WAS very specific about where that is directed, and I did also state it's not a generalization of all servicemembers.

But no. I do not institutionalize respect. If I did, I'd run the risk of respecting the guys who have purposefully targeted civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan, and committed raped against both foreign civvies AND their own servicemembers. I mean, let's just quietly mull over how bad of a problem rape is in the military towards servicewomen by their own fellow servicemen... I cannot give broad, covers-all respect specifically because people like that do exist in the military, and they continue to exist to this day.

Like gall said; gotta go by a case-by-case basis. Sparty, if you're a good person, and you're clearing good pilots and puttin' in the work, then hell yeah, you got my respect.

(September 17, 2013 at 2:11 pm)Creed of Heresy Wrote: But no. I do not institutionalize respect. If I did, I'd run the risk of respecting the guys who have purposefully targeted civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan, and committed raped against both foreign civvies AND their own servicemembers. I mean, let's just quietly mull over how bad of a problem rape is in the military towards servicewomen by their own fellow servicemen... I cannot give broad, covers-all respect specifically because people like that do exist in the military, and they continue to exist to this day.

I don't understand why paying respect to an entire institution necessarily means that you automatically respect those bad servicemembers that commit such heinous acts. It's not like we tell them to go out and do these things; these are acts committed individually. By this logic, you would also need to condemn the entire U.S. government because it spawned individuals like Nixon or Bush. I have a feeling this is not the case on your part, Creed, so I'm having difficulty deciphering what you're really trying to tell us here.

Theist, "Well Galileo you wouldn't have such a bad image problem if you would simply stop telling the truth".

Sorry, like others have said already, if you make a shitty claim and cannot back it up with evidence, how does that make us the bad guy?

The earth is a globe, it is not flat. The moon is not made of cheese, and there is no such thing as an invisible magical super hero in the sky. Atheists do not have an image problem, theists have an evidence problem.

(September 17, 2013 at 2:18 pm)BadWriterSparty Wrote: I don't understand why paying respect to an entire institution necessarily means that you automatically respect those bad servicemembers that commit such heinous acts. It's not like we tell them to go out and do these things; these are acts committed individually. By this logic, you would also need to condemn the entire U.S. government because it spawned individuals like Nixon or Bush. I have a feeling this is not the case on your part, Creed, so I'm having difficulty deciphering what you're really trying to tell us here.

If you pay respect to an entire institution, as in, you are broadly respecting all of it, and such bad apples are a part of the institution, if I give respect to the entire institution, stands to reason I have to respect those individuals...since they a part of it, yes? That making sense?

If that's the way you look at it, then it makes sense.

Yeah, that's the point I was trying to get across. Unless you're just going "...Ok, I don't get it, but smile and nod." XD

It's just, I can't say "I respect servicemembers for serving," because that's just too damn general and, well, again, I can't respect someone who commits murder or rape, it pretty much nullifies what else they've done in my eyes. That's the point I'm trying to get at. So, I have to look at it at a case-by-case basis for respect, and even then, respect does not ensure I can just let someone say something that I disagree without saying something myself about the topic itself.

Hell, BECAUSE I respect them, I will be open about my disagreement, because I respect them to not just condescend them by nodding and pretending like I agree.

(September 17, 2013 at 1:05 pm)Captain Colostomy Wrote: Y'all are welcome to piss all over the Air Force, guys...I have for years! :p

What, at that height?!

I know I'm gifted in certain ways, but there are limits even to my talents!