In this post, I’m going to assert that strong atheism is foundationally a position of faith.

The scope of this post is not to argue that there is a God, though of course being a Christian I already have an answer for that particular argument!

No, this post is strictly to assert that being a strong atheist explicitly implies a starting position of faith and that is ALL this post is about.

So that we have clear terms of engagement, and to be fair, could the strong atheist please answer the following:
(1) Please define what you consider to be the basis or method for establishing fact
(2) Please define what you consider to be faith, and how do you see this is different from fact?

Once we've agreed on those two we'll continue.

Well, I used to be a Strong Atheist.... before I realized that it was faith based.. so I'll answer anyway.
Agnostic Atheist btw.

(1) Establishing a fact, hmm, I think facts could be established if a statement is always found true, without exception. Like, the Earth revolves around the sun. At this moment, and thousands of years ago, the Earth has revolved around the sun, and it will continue to (until everything just falls apart)

(2) Faith is belief without evidence (my fav. definition, but there are other suitable ones) such as having faith in a spegetti monster existing, no evidence, therefore faith, not fact

1) Scientific
2) Delusion

Ok thanks for those two replies so far.

Please keep them coming! I'd like to work some way towards a common definition first before continuing.

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(January 19, 2010 at 1:18 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote: 1) Scientific
2) Delusion

Presumably you are saying a (not "the") scientific method establishes fact? And also that faith is synonymous with delusion? Can you please confirm?

Why do you assume the standpoint that we would disagree that strong atheism is a faith based position? There is no need for this whole song and dance, it is.

(January 19, 2010 at 3:58 am)leo-rcc Wrote: Why do you assume the standpoint that we would disagree that strong atheism is a faith based position? There is no need for this whole song and dance, it is.

So can I ask what it is you have faith in? And if you trust these things by faith, what do you count on as fact? It will be helpful if you go back and answer the first two questions I posed so that we can be clear on what you mean by faith and how you establish fact. And as to the song and dance - we haven't even started yet LOL!

Lmao Leo, totally right.

I get the feeling that our new friend here, FaithVsFact, has a bit of a disingenuous agenda.

Who else uses a name on a forum that mirrors their first agenda?

I also find it rather Ironic that your name is FaithvsFact and yet you obviously subscribe to the former part of your name, implying that the main claims of Christianity are non factual, which is true, yet you seem to have a problem with strong Atheists taking the same position.

Hypocrisy much?

(January 19, 2010 at 4:42 am)theVOID Wrote: Lmao Leo, totally right.

I get the feeling that our new friend here, FaithVsFact, has a bit of a disingenuous agenda.

Who else uses a name on a forum that mirrors their first agenda?

I also find it rather Ironic that your name is FaithvsFact and yet you obviously subscribe to the former part of your name, implying that the main claims of Christianity are non factual, which is true, yet you seem to have a problem with strong Atheists taking the same position.

Hypocrisy much?

Actually its my turn to laugh ha ha! If you read my first opening statement I wanted to demonstrate that strong atheists foundationally start from faith which is what you have since confirmed - so in fact - I don't have a problem with that at all! But to be clear - I still require you to define for me what you mean by faith and what you use to establish fact. Someone posted about using science - is this true for you?

Please be good enough to define faith for us.

(January 19, 2010 at 4:36 am)FaithvsFact Wrote:

(January 19, 2010 at 3:58 am)leo-rcc Wrote: Why do you assume the standpoint that we would disagree that strong atheism is a faith based position? There is no need for this whole song and dance, it is.

So can I ask what it is you have faith in?

You assume pretty much here. First off, I am not a strong atheist, and most on this website aren't either.

What do I have faith in? Things that can be assumed to occur based on previous experiences. Having faith that the earth will rotate so I can see the Sun tomorrow again, having faith I will still have a job next month. I might not be, but I have faith I do.

Quote:And if you trust these things by faith, what do you count on as fact?

Things that can be demonstrated to be accurate.

Quote:And as to the song and dance - we haven't even started yet LOL!

Yes we (as in you and me) have, because I am not in the mood for long discussions on semantics. Just state your case and get it over with.