(September 29, 2013 at 6:53 am)Brian37 Wrote: For fucks sake, even if there were only 300,000,000 Muslims instead of 4 billion or 1 billion, acts of force to rid the world of people you don't like is called FUCKING GENOCIDE!

I find it hypocritical of you to point the finger at people who want to use force to control us and use violence to get us to submit, and want to play childish tit for tat bullshit.

Hi Brian. First off, it's not genocide if the Muslims of the world would agree to be contained within that region known as the cradle of the three monotheistic religions; religions based on peace, love, mercy, forgiveness, and tolerance, yet the followers of Islam adhere to none of these admirable qualities. Let them kill each other instead of...?...us.

Speaking on the idea of genocide, I wonder if you would consider it genocide if people are slaughtered one at a time?

Links to Muslims Behead

How about 68 people at a time?
Muslims attack Mall

Or, how about 3,000 at a time?

http://9/119/11

What is the magic number of murders that will get you to see that Islam is all about the genocide of all non-muslims? Qur'an (4:89) - "They wish that you should disbelieve as they disbelieve, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper."

How many women have to be imprisoned and stoned to death for being raped before you acknowledge this religion as savage, ignorant, and just plain evil?

How many women around the world have to be raped by Muslim men before you cry out for all Muslims to be moved back into the region that spawned that sick religion?

Links to Women raped by Muslims

How many innocent children need to be honor killed by their own families before you've had enough of this Islam insanity?

Links to Honor Killings

Islam is dangerous. Islam is evil. Islam refuses to recognize human rights. Islam wants to kill YOU, and me, and even each sect of that same religion wants to kill each other.

I don't know what more I can say to convince you that without taking extreme measures now, the religion of Islam will continue to grow, continue to kill, and continue on its quest to oppress and dominate the entire world. To the point where if the followers of this religion get their hands on weapons of mass destruction they won't hesitate to use them in the name of allah.

Jiggerj, I'd say you might have a point if I saw some sort of a glorious united Jihad of muslims united under the same banner, though throughout history, muslims fought eachother more than they did non-muslims.
And fits of conquest that have been successfully done against non-muslims in the past are limited to a number of dynasties in muslim history.
These are the Rashidun Caliphate, who have successfully managed to spread their influence to Egypt and the Levant, the Umayyads, who have ventured as far as central asia and Spain, the Seljuks who have crushed the Byzantines and opened the gates of Anatolia to the Turkish hordes, the Ghaznavids who have pillaged India, the Ottomans, who have ventured as far as Vienna with their armies, and the Mughals who conquered India for good.
Some or multiple of these have always been in competition with eachother, lacking unity. If they had unity, they would have been able to do much more, perhaps, but as you see, there are ethnolinguistical differences amongst muslims.

And to be honest, in regards to what you've written above, none of these glorious dynasties committed wholesome genocide against their conquered non-muslim subjects, not even in India, where the Hindus were considered to be "mushrik" or pagans, instead being subject to the same jizyah as the the christians and jews were. I think you're being too...dramatic about the issue.
Worry about the arabs? Bah, the fools who cannot defeat a small jew state in Palestine? Worry about Iran? Good with the pen, but weak with the sword. But my good man, worry yourself about us Turks should we ever unite.
But you worry yourself about a number of muslim negroes in Africa and some rag-head tajiks in Afghanistan.
I'd say you're a fool, you really look to the wrong people for an enemy.

(September 29, 2013 at 9:24 am)kılıç_mehmet Wrote: Jiggerj, I'd say you might have a point if I saw some sort of a glorious united Jihad of muslims united under the same banner,

All good stuff you wrote there, Kilic. Unfortunately, they no longer need to unite in order to spread religious tyranny throughout the free world. We have shown the weakness in the fabric of the ideals that we hold so dear, and the nation of Islam is now slowly using that weakness against us. That weakness is religious freedom.

I am no prophet, but I do predict a Muslim majority in the United States by 2076. At that time the Islamic war against the U.S. will not be won by the sword or any military action, but by the vote.

(September 29, 2013 at 6:53 am)Brian37 Wrote: For fucks sake, even if there were only 300,000,000 Muslims instead of 4 billion or 1 billion, acts of force to rid the world of people you don't like is called FUCKING GENOCIDE!

...Which I DIDN'T suggest. I simply corrected you on the number of Muslims, I never suggested genocide or anything like it.

[quotr]
I find it hypocritical of you to point the finger at people who want to use force to control us and use violence to get us to submit, and want to play childish tit for tat bullshit.
[/quote]

You're claiming I've said things I never said...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=377kKBi6anQ

(September 29, 2013 at 10:02 am)Jiggerj Wrote:

(September 29, 2013 at 9:24 am)kılıç_mehmet Wrote: Jiggerj, I'd say you might have a point if I saw some sort of a glorious united Jihad of muslims united under the same banner,

All good stuff you wrote there, Kilic. Unfortunately, they no longer need to unite in order to spread religious tyranny throughout the free world. We have shown the weakness in the fabric of the ideals that we hold so dear, and the nation of Islam is now slowly using that weakness against us. That weakness is religious freedom.

I am no prophet, but I do predict a Muslim majority in the United States by 2076. At that time the Islamic war against the U.S. will not be won by the sword or any military action, but by the vote.

They no longer need to unite to do what? All I see in the world is not religious, but capitalist-internationalist terror.
Many of the nations who profess to Islam underwent a period of nationalism. However the west had to fuck it up by means of intervention. Iran had a period of nationalism, which the US fucked up with re-instating the monarchy, which the people detested for being a capitalist lap dog.
So what happened? Islamists pulled out a revolution.
Not to say that I think that Iran somewhat represents a threat to the world, maybe to your satelite state that is Israel, but even then, Israel is well able to retaliate as it has more weapons of destruction than any other state combined in the middle east ever had.

As for the free world, I don't know which countries you declare as being part of the free world, but I think you speak of the Euro-Atlantic alliance countries, of which Turkey, sadly, is still a part of.
"Free world" was relevant when the threat of communism, a real threat that spawned entire revolutions and civil wars, threatened to run over smaller countries.
You speak of the "nation of Islam", by which I think you're not referring to the group of individuals led by Louis Farrakhan, but to the muslim world in general, also defined as the "Ummah".
I take it that you know what requirements one must fulfill to speak of a nation at all.
So its fair to say that there is no nation of Islam present, it broke apart when the fourth caliph Hz. Ali was murdered by a khwariji dissident.

Your weakness, or whatever you call it is not religious freedom, your weakness is the lack of national consciousness. Your weakness is, as the killer of Utoya described, "cultural marxism" which has stripped European countries of their national identities, and brought the idea of "multiculturalism" into play. Meaning, that you'll accept people that do not necessarily want to integrate or assimilate into your own culture, many of those which happened to be muslims.
And well, given your current state, I too, would not like to be assimilated into your culture. It has lost all of its previous properties of pride, tradition and morality, and taken up the mantle of "liberal humanism". A self-destructive ideology.

As for whatever "war against the US" you speak of, I personally don't see one. If so, where are the armies? It is the armies of the US who continue to invade muslim countries, of course they're going to hate you for it. And your support of Israel makes you no more popular to be honest.
If you think you're being demonized without a just reasoning behind it, well, I'd say you're wrong. However everyone has their own reasons for pursuing war. So if you pursue war, you must be ready to face those whom you pursue war against. Every action, has a reaction. There is no need to whine about this.

As for whatever muslim majority you predict in the US, I really don't know what you're talking about. You should however worry about the incoming latino immigrants. Their numbers multiply more than the muslims ever do, and muslims don't even leech of your welfare, as they do in Europe. Most have jobs, and are even people of higher education.
At least those who could be counted as immigrants, I don't know what kind of a percentage converts hold amongst the muslim population of the US, though I'd say its not enough to breed you out....

What you don't understand is that neither globalisation, nor multiculturalism work. Some people are not meant to live side by side.
As for cultural terrorism, I think the cultural terrorism is done by the degenerate internationalist cultural hegemony of the US. Spreading consumerism, cultural and moral decay in the forms of things associated with consumerism, and social ills such as homosexuality and excessive sexual liberties(mostly via the media) is how I view that cultural terror is done against the nations of the old world.
They wish to impose their lack of social concern, their lack of morals, and their excessive liberties on the people of good customs and traditions in the old world, and old world is buying.
No longer are people interested in their own culture, but emulate the false and international culture imposed upon them by liberal humanistic agenda.
And so, they preach individualism, egoism, and create false enemies for people to focus on, while they undermine the foundations of general society.

(September 29, 2013 at 10:48 am)kılıç_mehmet Wrote: Meaning, that you'll accept people that do not necessarily want to integrate or assimilate into your own culture, many of those which happened to be muslims. And well, given your current state, I too, would not like to be assimilated into your culture.

I can't argue with anything you wrote (you write beautifully, by the way). It's all true, true, true. I can't stand my country's involvement in the affairs of other countries.

I can only direct a comment at one of your points, the one I copied above. If Muslims (or any group) don't want to embrace the common values of a country, then why move there when there are plenty of other countries that have what they want? There can only be one reason, and that is to become a majority and destroy that country. I can think of no other valid reason.

(September 29, 2013 at 11:56 am)Jiggerj Wrote: If Muslims (or any group) don't want to embrace the common values of a country, then why move there when there are plenty of other countries that have what they want?

Replace "Muslims" with "Irish" or "Mexicans" and you'll have the ideology of idiotic nativists throughout 20th century America.

I don't think you're against the Irish coming into the US, are you?

Quote:There can only be one reason, and that is to become a majority and destroy that country.

I doubt that is the reason. Think of the logistics of it.

In the US immigrants at first tend to cluster into neighborhoods of their own. There are sections of New York City which look like Hong Kong or Athens. But there is also a tendency for the second generation to break away and assimilate. I'm not sure to what degree that is happening or not happening in Europe.

(September 29, 2013 at 11:56 am)Jiggerj Wrote:

(September 29, 2013 at 10:48 am)kılıç_mehmet Wrote: Meaning, that you'll accept people that do not necessarily want to integrate or assimilate into your own culture, many of those which happened to be muslims. And well, given your current state, I too, would not like to be assimilated into your culture.

I can't argue with anything you wrote (you write beautifully, by the way). It's all true, true, true. I can't stand my country's involvement in the affairs of other countries.

I can only direct a comment at one of your points, the one I copied above. If Muslims (or any group) don't want to embrace the common values of a country, then why move there when there are plenty of other countries that have what they want? There can only be one reason, and that is to become a majority and destroy that country. I can think of no other valid reason.

Well, as I said before, some people are not meant to live together, which is why the world today has something called "nation states". A nation state puts together a large group of individuals who share a common identity, a common language, common culture, and common religion.
For immigrants, some of these can sometimes be neglected, like for example, immigrants of a common identity, language and culture will sometimes disregard religion(in case of Turkey and Azerbaijan. Turkey is Sunni, Azerbaijan is Shia. But we are still brothers in blood and we help eachother), or people of a similar culture and similar religion can co-exist without common identity or language(in case of Switzerland), but you do not have anything in common with those people, neither in identity, culture, language, nor religion.
You don't even pressure them to perhaps conform with the culture, although they do learn your language, you still lack things that you might have in common with them.

For yet another point, none of these immigrants came to Euro countries or to the US with the inherent purpose of looking for fights.
There were muslim immigrants in Europe and US before 9/11. We were such a group, not immigrants, but we were sent by the government to take care of the money of our immigrants. Well, tensions were there, of course, but they weren't really that harsh. We lived in a dominantly German neighborhood, and we have had no friction with our neighbors whatsoever.
However after 9/11, and the declaration of a new public enemy, muslims who lived in western countries felt...somewhat strange about their state of being. And instead of lifting the public enemy image, the west actually tried to keep both the public enemy image, while supporting muslim immigrants against the public enemy image.
This of course does not make anyone happy. Muslims will obviously state their disapproval, while non-muslims, who are subject to the propaganda, will disagree with the multiculturalist policies of the government. Meanwhile, muslims, who are still unhappy from the public enemy propaganda, will exploit the said multiculturalist policies in order to strengthen their position in society in response to their state as a minority that is being universally reviled.

So what to do with your muslim minorities?
Well, assimilation is probably out of the question, as assimilation requires you to be okay with intermarriages, and intermarriages destroy nations, as they distort the identity of newer generations. And minorities themselves fear that their ethnolinguistical features will be lost, which makes them disapprove of intermarriages.
However, your current leaders, in their fits of multiculturalism and cultural marxism, now try to get you people to look well upon the concept of intermarriage. Not just with muslim immigrants, but with all.
So now you have the image of a british person of all colours, all cultures, and all races.
I must tell you this, citizenship is not the basis of a nation. Citizenship is only a piece of paper. My nation has seen this, and we have tried to create a common identity for our minorities, which did not work. Minorities do not feel the same amount of loyalty to a country as much as the founding majority of a country does. And our minorities are natural minorities, meaning people that have lived here for hundreds of years, and yet they still take measures to promote their own national and ethnic identities, while opposing the promotion of the ethnic and national identy of the majority.

As I said, none of your muslim minorities, by which I mean immigrants, have come to your lands to actually establish their own cultures there. However, it is natural for an immigrant minority that lacks common points of interest with the majority to actually integrate into the social structure.
However their power is only as much as you allow them to wield.
IF you for example, did not allow them to project their own identities over the identity of the majority, they perhaps would still be the muslims they are, but they would realize that they live amongst a majority, and they live there thanks to the majority, which would make them to treat the wishes of majority with humility, rather than with hostility.

In the words of the Russian president Putin, "We don't need the minorities, minorities need us.". This is the mentality that you must project towards your minorities. And you also must remove this public enemy image that is directed towards muslims if you wish them to calm down.
The muslims are not like the jews, who come here with dreams of becoming powerful, or holding any prominent positions. They come there with the simple and humble dreams of becoming a worker, earning more money than they'd in their home countries. And you can see that from how they actually possess no real power in the country by themselves: how many known bankers, corporate owners, or people of higher education, are muslims? How many known and cherished actors, sportspeople are of muslim descent in Europe, or in the US?

However it comes to my attention that you have a lot of Jews in those positions, and leftists/liberals in your educational institutions.
Perhaps you should look at them first before blaming immigrants, as those people are the same people who support immigrants and minorities in their every endeavor whether right or wrong, these people are the sole enemies of the majority, with minorities being their simple tools of chaos.
Mark my words. Unless you rid yourself of the rotten liberal humanist mentality that plagues your universities and your public institutions, you are bound to have more problems with not just the muslims, but all other minorities.