I for one would believe you. We have one in our neighborhood too. Great steaks and barbeque. Yum.

It's important to remember that maturity and experience greatly influence our perception. It's natural that human beings would change beliefs due to the fact that their minds change, too. Being closer to your death causes psychological changes as the mind attempts to understand the inevitable end of its existence.

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(October 11, 2013 at 10:15 am)whateverist Wrote: Getting a little testy there. May I suggest a redesign of your user name?

How about "Not Very Christlike Tool of Christ"? Like it?

I would go with "Dildo of Christ."

Some atheists change because some people change.

He was 81 at the time. I'm betting on dementia. Prime time for that.

What I can't understand is the stupidity of younger thesists. They must just be assholes.

I've often wondered, "why deism?" I mean, a god which never, ever interacts with the universe is very much the same as a nonexistent god. And since there's no evidence that this being exists, there's no reason to believe it exists. It's not even like deists claim to have some "personal revelation" or interaction with this deity like Christians do, it's just kind of "there."

I believe that most deists are probably deists because they don't accept the bullshit claims of theists, but yet they hold onto a belief in a god because of traditional, familial, or societal reasons. I could be wrong about this, though. I'd need actual deists to explain to me exactly what they believe.

In all, though, I'd rather hang around deists with the idea of an impersonal, hands-off type of god than the Christians with their hairy thunderer "vengeance is mine" type god.

(October 11, 2013 at 9:59 am)Sword of Christ Wrote: Because they where they're obviously going wrong in their reasoning and understand they're being a bit daft. Deism is pointless though you can do a bit better than that.

Hey, do you remember where you said in that other thread that you shouldn't be a cunt?

How's that working out for you?

(October 11, 2013 at 12:33 pm)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote:

(October 11, 2013 at 9:59 am)Sword of Christ Wrote: Because they where they're obviously going wrong in their reasoning and understand they're being a bit daft. Deism is pointless though you can do a bit better than that.

Hey, do you remember where you said in that other thread that you shouldn't be a cunt?

How's that working out for you?

Now, now...we all have a role to play. His just happens to reek of bad salmon.

(October 11, 2013 at 12:00 pm)Doubting Thomas Wrote: I've often wondered, "why deism?" I mean, a god which never, ever interacts with the universe is very much the same as a nonexistent god. And since there's no evidence that this being exists, there's no reason to believe it exists. It's not even like deists claim to have some "personal revelation" or interaction with this deity like Christians do, it's just kind of "there."

I believe that most deists are probably deists because they don't accept the bullshit claims of theists, but yet they hold onto a belief in a god because of traditional, familial, or societal reasons. I could be wrong about this, though. I'd need actual deists to explain to me exactly what they believe.

In all, though, I'd rather hang around deists with the idea of an impersonal, hands-off type of god than the Christians with their hairy thunderer "vengeance is mine" type god.

First, a bit of my background. I was raised by atheist parents, most of my family are atheists as are most of my friends. So I don't think there's any familial or societal pressure at work here.

When I say that deism is "atheism with poetic flourishes", I mean it's an outgrowth of a sense of awe of the natural order and hope for human reason/human civilization, the same traits that most atheists I know of share. Back when I had a website, many of my inspirational quotes posted on it came from such thinkers as Hitchens, Sagan, Dawkins and Harris. If atheism were a city, deism would be a suburb in its greater metropolitan area.

Deism is a spirituality grounded strictly in the natural and the natural provides plenty of inspiration, often superior to what's written about in scripture. As Hitchens said, "who's going to look at the incredible images captured by the Hubble telescope and then go marvel at a burning bush. The natural universe is enough." And Dawkins described the gods of theism aptly when he spoke of "a petty god, a little god." The gods of theism are obsessed with whether we pray in the right direction five times a day or if we work on the Sabbath or if we believe the right things about why a certain someone died 2000 years ago. How about instead a god who seeded the universe with intelligent life that can grow to build on that foundation? Once while walking out of the New York planetarium after a show, I couldn't help but blurt out to my Christian sister, "why would anyone waste their time in church on Sunday?"

As a deist, I look at the universe, from the micro to the macro, and see a grand machine. I reflect on human reason and the potential of human civilization, with all the things that have come together in our evolution to make it possible, and I see intent. "God" is simply the enigmatic mind behind it all.

From the few deists I've spoken to online, it seems that few "convert" to it, at least not in any stable way. There are some who do temporarily convert from Christianity or Islam but check back with them in a few years and you'll find deism was just a rest-stop on the road to atheism. Most of us seem to "discover" that's what we were all along, or so it was with me. Disclaimer: this is just my experience, not a formal population survey, so I may be wrong about this.

So the distinction between deism and atheism is more sentiment about the things we agree on, hence "poetic flourishes".

(October 12, 2013 at 11:37 am)DeistPaladin Wrote: As a deist, I look at the universe, from the micro to the macro, and see a grand machine. I reflect on human reason and the potential of human civilization, with all the things that have come together in our evolution to make it possible, and I see intent. "God" is simply the enigmatic mind behind it all.

Well, on this we disagree, but thank you for putting your views on deism so eloquently, you answered a few questions I had not yet asked on the topic that I have been wondering about.

I think that some Atheist change for some reasons like :

1.He(she) believe had received a kind of revelation.
2.Fear of death at an old age.
3.Fear of hell if you're a "weak atheist".
etc...

These link can maybe give you a light :

1.List of converts to Judaism from non-religious backgrounds
2.List of converts to Christianity from nontheism
3.List of converts to Islam from nontheism