(October 20, 2013 at 7:40 am)Sword of Christ Wrote: Are you sure atheism isn't just a reaction against religious fundamentalism on the equal and opposite side? You shouldn't like these kinds of people decide for you what the truth of the situation is.

Who are you talking to?

If you consider the Dawkins' scale (strong belief to no belief) then yes... If there were no religions, there would be no atheism; there would be nothing to reject.

But note that it's a continuum and not just a two sided coin.

(October 20, 2013 at 7:40 am)Sword of Christ Wrote: Are you sure atheism isn't just a reaction against religious fundamentalism on the equal and opposite side?

I present myself as evidence against this: I'm Australian, there practically isn't religious fundamentalism over here.

Quote: You shouldn't like these kinds of people decide for you what the truth of the situation is.

...

What a deeply ironic thing to be coming out of you.

And by ironic, I mean enraging. Deeply enraging.

(October 20, 2013 at 7:48 am)DLJ Wrote: If you consider the Dawkins' scale (strong belief to no belief) then yes... If there were no religions, there would be no atheism; there would be nothing to reject.

So a more advanced form of humanity is a form of humanity that doesn't have any belief in God/a higher power or a meaning/purpose to life beyond feeding, reproduction and survival?



Why didn't we just stay at this ultimate form of human evolution?

(October 20, 2013 at 8:36 am)Sword of Christ Wrote: So a more advanced form of humanity is a form of humanity that doesn't have any belief in God/a higher power or a meaning/purpose to life beyond feeding, reproduction and survival?

Yep. That's... that's exactly what was said. You got us. You win. That's absolutely the words that were said to you. Yes.

(October 20, 2013 at 8:36 am)Sword of Christ Wrote:

(October 20, 2013 at 7:48 am)DLJ Wrote: If you consider the Dawkins' scale (strong belief to no belief) then yes... If there were no religions, there would be no atheism; there would be nothing to reject.

So a more advanced form of humanity is a form of humanity that doesn't have any belief in God/a higher power or a meaning/purpose to life beyond feeding, reproduction and survival?

Why didn't we just stay at this ultimate form of human evolution?

Highlighted bit... I agree.

As for the rest... see my signature below.

And if you really think I would rise to that kind of bait, I pity you.

Also, one thing is for sure, the ultimate form of human evolution won't be human.

(October 20, 2013 at 9:08 am)Esquilax Wrote: Yep. That's... that's exactly what was said. You got us. You win. That's absolutely the words that were said to you. Yes.

Can you hear the swoosh of the point I made go flying clear over your head? I've heard the "if religion didn't exist" argument before and yes there was a time when it didn't.

(October 20, 2013 at 11:22 am)DLJ Wrote: Highlighted bit... I agree.

Quote:Also, one thing is for sure, the ultimate form of human evolution won't be human.

A direction to evolution is there? You do know you have destroyed your own argument/agenda here? It's like watching a train crash in slow motion seeing atheists tie themselves up in knots like this.

(October 20, 2013 at 11:32 am)Sword of Christ Wrote:

(October 20, 2013 at 9:08 am)Esquilax Wrote: Yep. That's... that's exactly what was said. You got us. You win. That's absolutely the words that were said to you. Yes.

Can you hear the swoosh of the point I made go flying clear over your head? I've heard the "if religion didn't exist" argument before and yes there was a time when it didn't.

Maybe you missed Esquilax's point that you were creating a little man made of straw / putting words in our mouths etc.

But it's good that you have realised and conceded that religions (and by extension, their gods) are inventions of our pithecoidal ancestors.

Bravo, sir, bravo!

(October 20, 2013 at 11:32 am)Sword of Christ Wrote:

(October 20, 2013 at 11:22 am)DLJ Wrote: Highlighted bit... I agree.

"Then you are lost"

Quote:Also, one thing is for sure, the ultimate form of human evolution won't be human.

A direction to evolution is there? You do know you have destroyed your own argument/agenda here? It's like watching a train crash in slow motion seeing atheists tie themselves up in knots like this.

Again, nice try.

It always amuses me when an online theist creates an imaginary homogeneous atheist.

What was my argument? Do I have an agenda?

Oh! I can't wait for you to tell me what that is.

While you are about it, how many fingers am I holding up?

And yes, evolution does have a direction. Many in fact. And all of them are forwards!

Direction =/= destination.

Try reading again and then come back with a decent response. But I don't need one. I was being rhetorical.

Having a conversation with someone who clutches at straw men is tedious.

(October 20, 2013 at 11:32 am)Sword of Christ Wrote: Can you hear the swoosh of the point I made go flying clear over your head? I've heard the "if religion didn't exist" argument before and yes there was a time when it didn't.

Yes, but your point has absolutely no logical link to the sentiment being expressed, turning it into a strawman. Religion has had absolutely no affect on our evolution out of that stage, nor has it contributed a single thing to our social or cultural development- religious people have, but your holy books, your god claims? Not a jot.

So rather than address the point, you just ignored it. Surprise surprise.

(October 20, 2013 at 12:34 pm)Esquilax Wrote: Yes, but your point has absolutely no logical link to the sentiment being expressed, turning it into a strawman. Religion has had absolutely no affect on our evolution out of that stage

I didn't say it did? Religion kicked in when we were ready/developed enough for the concept.

Quote:nor has it contributed a single thing to our social or cultural development

Religion had no effect on human culture or society at all?

Quote:religious people have

Religious people are the religion, as C.S Lewis describes it to be a Christian is to be a cell in the body of Christ.

Quote:, but your holy books, your god claims? Not a jot.

So the claim of the existence and love of God and our eternal salvation never profoundly effected anyone's life in any way at all because it didn't effect yourself? But even on the purely cultural level it's like saying the plays of Shakespeare didn't impact our society.

I think I'm going to have to agree with SoC here.

There has been a huge contribution.

Largely detrimental but nonetheless, huge.

But we know, Esquilax that you meant to say 'positive' contribution.

Indeed, there have been those too... music, poetry, literature... can't and won't argue with that.

I suspect, though, that the people producing the music, poetry and even art and architecture would have produced wonderous works also if their patrons had been irreligious. We will never know.