(January 28, 2010 at 4:31 pm)Welsh cake Wrote: Pigs are considered "unclean" by Muslims (someone here please explain why)

Maybe Muslims are Tarantino fans?

Jules(Jackson): Pigs sleep and root in shit. That's a filthy animal. I ain't eatin' nothing that ain't got sense enough to disregard its own feces.

(January 29, 2010 at 6:58 pm)theVOID Wrote: Maybe Muslims are Tarantino fans?

Hooray references.

(January 29, 2010 at 6:58 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Or 'cheese' if that's your criteria

Exactly

You have just discovered the subjectivity of language

Oh orangutan, my zelching, fnorb! Lark memno aptax sporno, with lemptex zneep. Long cortran frenk tom zlomo greeble, in znary quartan fnord.

Chocolate,
Rhizo

(January 29, 2010 at 7:47 pm)Saerules Wrote: You have just discovered the subjectivity of language

Don't you mean bastardisation?

Bastardization is also in the English language, yes. But how it is understood has to at some level also be subjective, despite the fact it is quite clearly defined in any good dictionary.

EvF

Well the Muslims I know are outraged because Allah refers the their idea of The God, while Christians are trying to incorperate it even though God is commonly used in Christian circles as the idea of the Christian God. Both ideas of God reference the one monotheistic God, but who's attributes are in conflict. Christians have consistantly tried to incorperate other religious dieties and and symbolism into their religion to increase "the flock" so to speak, so no one (especially on this forum) should really be that suprised. Historically though you would convert people to Chistianity imediately after adoption or they'd be labeled a heretic. Modern Christianity is under the fear of Globalization of religion that all worship one God. In modern times we're (Christians) more concerned with termage (??) and phrasing and content to leave others with their current beliefs and just tell them we're worshipping the same God. The problem there in lies that without changing a converts core beliefs about their idea of God there has been a great deal of fracturing within Christianity.

(January 30, 2010 at 7:21 am)tackattack Wrote:

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Well the Muslims I know are outraged because Allah refers the their idea of The God, while Christians are trying to incorperate it even though God is commonly used in Christian circles as the idea of the Christian God. Both ideas of God reference the one monotheistic God, but who's attributes are in conflict. Christians have consistantly tried to incorperate other religious dieties and and symbolism into their religion to increase "the flock" so to speak, so no one (especially on this forum) should really be that suprised. Historically though you would convert people to Chistianity imediately after adoption or they'd be labeled a heretic. Modern Christianity is under the fear of Globalization of religion that all worship one God. In modern times we're (Christians) more concerned with termage (??) and phrasing and content to leave others with their current beliefs and just tell them we're worshipping the same God. The problem there in lies that without changing a converts core beliefs about their idea of God there has been a great deal of fracturing within Christianity.

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First, citation needed. Second, the Malay language for a deity or supreme power is Allah. It doesn't matter the history of the appropriation, nor does it matter that an arabic word and a malay word are exactly the same (by it's roots). Is the importation of foreign words in Japan part of some sinister agenda with the aim of increasing the Japanese? No. They (the Japanese) use foreign words because it has a meaning and pronunciation they like. Same goes with any other country, however some regulate the official inclusion of a foreign word into their dictionaries (France et al).

Malaysians simply refer to a supreme being as "Allah". Because the word is seen to mean as such across all Malaysia (due to Muslim influence), it has defined itself as the most popular word per meaning.

To see fr0d0's and tackattack's attempts to downplay the significance of language within a large community or attempt to sabotage it's meaning by linking it to a strawman (ah, those silly "converting" Christians) is, plainly put, stupid. It is moronic and I am going to call it out.

This issue is rather simple. An ingroup is upset that their success in peddling a ware has defined all subsequent similar wares to be related to it by virtue of popularity, thus diluting their monopoly of it. They can go fuck off.

If it were the exact same ware Syn I'd have no problem. It's like calling an apple an orange. Sure someone ignorant might be using the wrong word innocently. That doesn't make it correct.

'Allah' is the Arabic name for God.

Quote:Allah (Arabic: الله‎, Allāh, Turkish: Allah, IPA: [ʔalˤːɑːh] ( listen)) is the standard Arabic word for God.[1] While the term is best known in the West for its use by Muslims as a reference to God, it is used by Arabic-speakers of all Abrahamic faiths, including Christians and Jews, in reference to "God".[1][2][3] The term was also used by pagan Meccans as a reference to the creator-god, possibly the supreme deity in pre-Islamic Arabia.[4]

The Jewish AND Christian name is written as YHWH,usually pronounced "Yahweh" or Jehovah by Christians but traditionally considred too sacred to pronounce by Jews. There are no vowels in written Hebrew nor does the letter 'j' exist --EG 'Jesus' ' is Latin. In Hebrew the name was probably something like Yeshua or Yoshua.

Judaisms, Christianity and Islam are called "The Abrahamic Faiths" as they all trace their origin to the patriarch Abraham --The Jews from Isaac son of Abraham and Sarah.The Muslims to Ishmael,son of Abraham and Hagar the Egyptian. Ishmael is seen by Muslims as father of the Arabs.

Each of the three faiths revere the same holy book,The Torah.(the first five books of the old testament,aka 'The Pentateuch' . Much of the Qur'an is lifted from the Torah. It is because the three faiths worship the same god that Muslims are admonished to respect Jews and Christians [especially] as 'people of The Book"

Quote:Abrahamic religions (also known as Abrahamic faiths, Abrahamic traditions, religions of Abraham and semitic religions[1]) has been used to designate the world's three primary monotheistic faiths of Judaism, Christianity and Islam, emphasizing their common origin and values. For some 1,300 years their histories and thought have been intertwined. They are considered inextricably linked to one another because of a 'family likeness' and a certain commonality in theology.[2] They are faiths that recognize a spiritual tradition identified with Abraham.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrahamic_religions

Quote:People of the Book (Arabic: أهل الكتاب‎ ′Ahl al-Kitāb) is a term used to designate non-Muslim adherents to faiths which have a book of prayer. The two faiths that are mentioned in the Qur'an as people of the book are Judaism and Christianity. However, Muslim rulers and scholars have included other religions such as Zoroastrianism[1][2] and Hinduism in this list as well. [3]




There are many statements in the Qur'an that promote tolerance towards People of The Book. For example:

* And do not dispute with the followers of the Book except by what is best, except those of them who act unjustly, and say: We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you, and our God and your God is One, and to Him do we submit. [Qur'an 29:46]

There are also many statements that promote an adversarial relationship. For example:

* O you who believe! Do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends ; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a ruler/patron, then surely he is one of them; surely God does not guide the unjust people. [Qur'an 5:51]

In other places the Qur'an says:

* Not all of them are alike; a party of the people of the Scripture stand for the right, they recite the Verses of God during the hours of the night, prostrating themselves in prayer. They believe in God and the Last Day; they enjoin Al-Ma'rûf and forbid Al-Munkar ; and they hasten in (all) good works; and they are among the righteous. And whatever good they do, nothing will be rejected of them; for God knows well those who are Al-Muttaqûn .(3:113-115)

* And there are, certainly, among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), those who believe in God and in that which has been revealed to you, and in that which has been revealed to them, humbling themselves before God. They do not sell the Verses of God for a little price, for them is a reward with their Lord. Surely, God is Swift in account. '(3:199)'

* Verily! Those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in God and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve . [Qur'an 2:62]

* Say (O Muhammad ): "O people of the Scripture : Come to a word that is just between us and you, that we worship none but God, and that we associate no partners with Him, and that none of us shall take others as lords besides God. [Qur'an 3:64]

Throughout Islamic history, Muslims have used these ayah (verses) to justify a variety of positions towards non-Muslims. In some places and times, Muslims showed a great deal of tolerance towards non-Muslims; in other places and times non-Muslims were treated as enemies and persecuted. Islamic law demands that Muslims treat Jews and Christians as dhimmis, protected citizens who have a number of rights.

One ayah in the Qur'an can even be interpreted to encourage a neutral position toward non-Muslims. This ayah says, "Those who follow the Jewish and the Sabi'een, Christians, Magians and Polytheists — Allah will judge them On the Day of Judgement:" (22:17). The acceptance of Zoroastrians as dhimmis is partly because of this ayah, as the Magians were Zurvanist Zoroastrians, and this verse, specifically mentions them alongside other People of the Book,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_of_t...e_Qur.27an