(November 19, 2013 at 6:53 pm)Brakeman Wrote:

(November 18, 2013 at 10:37 pm)Lion IRC Wrote: Here ya go Brakeman, since you squibbed it when I challenged you on the 10 points WHICH YOU BROUGHT INTO the thread, let’s see if we can get things back “on topic” …err, I mean,
back onto something you are willing to discuss.

What do you think of the logic here;


Squarely down the middle? Equal in numbers? Are there bad ‘good’ people and good ‘bad’ people? What about the sub-groups?

If you had been able to read the post with adequate comprehension, you would have seen that the ten items were examples of possible pitfalls on the theistic side that must logically have a similar mirrored atheistic pitfall if the premise of Deidre's and Jacob's claim of similar slippery slope pitfalls were true. It was not an attempt nor an invitation to bring 10 new completely unrelated topics into the discussion. A careful read shows that clearly.
I invited you to start a new thread on those topics if you wished, but instead of doing so, you simply make empty postures.

As for Jacob's "we're all equally bad" claim, I don't think it's true, useful, or applicable to the issue. I don't think it's true because atheists are, on the whole, non-violent. I don't think it's useful, because that statement claims that atheists and theists are on the same level, thus there is no slope to be slippery on. I don't think it is applicable to the discussion because the behavior of the general population, of which is made up of theists and atheists, has the same level of vice, but the point of discussion was not the messengers, but the message, that the pushing of reason and logic against religious superstition has no negative side effects that might cause one to "slip" into a pitfall.

After this discussion I should get a medal for nailing Jello.

If I gave the impression that I thought atheists were AS BAD then I apologise. Theists are clearly worse, hence the comment about the risk that atheist groups could exhibit similar behavior to theist ones. We're there ahead of you, no doubt. More cliquey. More prejudiced. More inclined to try to graft our views onto others.

However as fff said, humans are much alike and prone to fuckwittery regardless of their specific beliefs. And group dynamics are depressingly predictable.

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(November 19, 2013 at 7:11 pm)Deidre32 Wrote:

(November 19, 2013 at 4:46 pm)Jacob(smooth) Wrote: I stand grateful for your spoonfeeding. Diedre badger and I are clearly mistaken and there is no danger that atheists could exhibit any of the nastier aspects of religion when gathered in groups. Atheists in a group never exhibit the same circlejerking tendencies as Christians. Thanks for reassuring me. You're all cool.

Also, Diedre, shame on you for thinking that Brakeman has a condescending or self righteous tone . Absolutely no traces of that which I can detect!

Yes, the berating is so subtle!
Are you a Christian, Jacob? I once was, for years.

Technically yes. But I'm not very good at it.

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(November 19, 2013 at 7:13 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:How does one answer questions with out giving the appearance of witnessing then?

Throw in a couple of "fuck jesuses." That should cover it.

Nah. I'm not here to convert anyone, but that doesn't mean I'm going to say stuff just to convince you of the fact! Or indeed that I'm not a Christian. I think Jesus (or whoever said the stuff accredited to him) talked some good sense!

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(November 19, 2013 at 6:44 pm)freedomfromfallacy Wrote:

(November 19, 2013 at 6:34 pm)Jacob(smooth) Wrote: How does one answer questions with out giving the appearance of witnessing then?

You are giving no appearance - you simply, are. When you speak from any position at all, you are a 'witness' to that position.

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(November 19, 2013 at 6:37 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: Actually, you're doing the best job of witnessing of any of our current Christians.

A bad soup with more seasoning.

Well arn't you the little ray of sunshine!

OK, well since I'm speaking from a position, I guess i'm witnessing as much as you are.

You seem like a kind person, Jacob--and that's what faith should bring forth in someone. Christianity, while I think it's a farce, there were positive things I felt about it. True "witnessing" should require little talking. All too often, we meet people who profess being religious, but don't really seem kind or content. Don't tell me about your faith, show it by how you live. This is why atheism is so powerful because atheists are living their lives morally and so on without a book of rules nor the need to follow a Deity to "worship."

And their divorce rates are much lower than Christians and they are involved with more community outreach programs, locally and globally, studies have shown.

Heaven if it really exists might be filled with atheists.

(November 19, 2013 at 12:25 am)Deidre32 Wrote: My name is not Desiree, and you are funny. I said nothing of the kind.

The slippery slope is what happens when atheists/agnostics who are fed up with religion, don't properly channel their energies in order to create a more positive world, that invites people to wish to learn more about rational thinking and reason. Religion for many is not folly. It brings them peace.

That is my point. Your message will not resonate (with anyone), so long as you deliver it with an attacking, condescending, and self righteous tone.

Sorry Deidre32, I don't know where the Desiree came from..

Can you explain where your slippery slope slips to? I'm guessing that you are now meaning it to be angst and stress for the atheist??

As for your comment about religion for many not being folly, I totally disagree:

fol·ly
noun: folly; plural noun: Follies

1. lack of good sense; foolishness.

It will always be folly, it will never use good reason or logic. The claim that some people are happier being stupidly wrong is totally unsupported. {I think it has been asked on this board before, "are we happier as atheists than when we were christians" and the general consensus was yes, but I will have to search for it to be sure} Anyway, see this blog post.
http://religionvirus.blogspot.com/2012/0...e-not.html
I posted a new poll because I couldn't find the old one.

So if you have any evidence that believing in a lie is better than the magic of learning the truth through reason and seeing the wonder of reality, then by all means present it. Peace at all costs is not happiness. If it were then Marijuana should be mandatory for everyone.


Your last point, that I won't be as effective explaining my reason and logic to idiot theists if I do it in a disrespectful manner is very true, but the vicious way I treat Lion RC or Jacob, or Drich, or GC, is not how I would typically address a christian or muslim. It is simply how I address theists on here that I have witnessed blatant dishonesty in the discussions. Once they act like a crusader instead of inquisitive discussion partners, I no longer give them respect. Any respect.

(November 19, 2013 at 7:16 pm)Jacob(smooth) Wrote:

(November 19, 2013 at 6:44 pm)freedomfromfallacy Wrote: You are giving no appearance - you simply, are. When you speak from any position at all, you are a 'witness' to that position.

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A bad soup with more seasoning.

Well arn't you the little ray of sunshine!

Why yes, I am, thank you!

Jacob(smooth) Wrote:OK, well since I'm speaking from a position, I guess i'm witnessing as much as you are.

Yup, and aint' logic a bitch? The same rules apply to us all

(November 19, 2013 at 4:46 pm)Jacob(smooth) Wrote: Also, Diedre, shame on you for thinking that Brakeman has a condescending or self righteous tone . Absolutely no traces of that which I can detect!

From http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.ph...-righteous
1. Self-Righteous
A self-righteous person acts superior to his peers because he believes his moral standards are perfect. This "moral smugness" is condescending by nature and is usually found offensive by others.
Self-righteousness is a way unintelligent and nonathletic people can retain a sense of superiority. Various cults and religions promote self-righteousness in an attempt to convert the average person, who feels immoral by comparison.

I don't act morally superior.

con·de·scend·ing
adjective: condescending

1. having or showing a feeling of patronizing superiority.

Aww fuck, you got me there!


++++++++++++++++
Actually if I came off too strong, I apologize. My intention was not to be rude but to be doggedly determined to root out the cached idea that religion is ever something best left alone and festering, or that reason, logic, and reality is sometimes bad medicine.

Quote: I think Jesus (or whoever said the stuff accredited to him) talked some good sense!

Really?

Quote:Matthew 5:5
5 Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth.

I think "jesus" sounds like a jerk. The meek get fucked over by the powerful. Pretending otherwise makes him out to be something of a schmuck.....or a liar.

As a Christian, I see those people who say they hate Christians as a blessing....they turn countless people away from turning to atheism.

(November 19, 2013 at 10:00 pm)Polaris Wrote: As a Christian, I see those people who say they hate Christians as a blessing....they turn countless people away from turning to atheism.

Yep. Theres something repulsive about hate clubs.

The way some people spew invective and expletives around like confetti at folk whose opinions they disagree with, makes me wonder if that's how they talk to kids.
...or contestants on a Gordon Ramsay reality TV cooking show.

How many times do I have to tell you you moron!! Stop playing with your food you stupid little piece of dont you know that there are starving people in Africa?

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Gordon Ramsay angry Google image search results.

hock:

(November 19, 2013 at 10:00 pm)Polaris Wrote: As a Christian, I see those people who say they hate Christians as a blessing....they turn countless people away from turning to atheism.

Ha Ha Ha, yeah sure. People base their inner doubts on how misbehaved unconvinced people are.. Right.. Citation seriously needed..

(November 19, 2013 at 10:37 pm)Brakeman Wrote:

(November 19, 2013 at 10:00 pm)Polaris Wrote: As a Christian, I see those people who say they hate Christians as a blessing....they turn countless people away from turning to atheism.

Ha Ha Ha, yeah sure. People base their inner doubts on how misbehaved unconvinced people are.. Right.. Citation seriously needed..

Just ask min and cijin how many people they have driven away from finding out about atheism.