(November 26, 2013 at 2:14 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: I know this isn't directed at me, but that rant makes you look like an example of what you're ranting about.

Methinks he doth protest too much.

(November 26, 2013 at 2:33 pm)houseofcantor Wrote: Summer, tell us moar!

I don't know about Near Death Experiences, but a lady never kisses and tells of le petit mort - the little death.

My beliefs aren't some indoctrination that I've read and accepted, in fact it's the opposite and similar to yours, only with a different conclusion.

Your belief is you don't follow a religion and accept that God exists because there is no proof.

My belief is, I don't follow a religion, but I believe that there exists evidence beyond our understanding that suggests there could be a God.

Such as certain NDE's which, even with science, are unexplainable. Or intelligence, such as the people who are happiest are in a state of love. And the people who are most unhappy are in a state that lacks love. But what is love outside of a word? We cannot explain it, it'd be like explain what a tree looks like to a blind man. You have to experience it. Too me, this intelligence and why its incorporated within life suggests a map that might indicate a reason for our existence. I believe God is that map. Why does it feel good when someone compliments you and why does it feel bad when someone insults something important to you?

To me, there's something to this. It doesn't just exist for no real reason, as nothing seems to exist for no real reason, as evolution suggests.

For these reasons, I believe in a God, but not in the form that most have been conditioned to understand, but in the form of love, which to me, from what I understand, seems to be the reason we exist.

So you believe what it makes you happy to believe. That's your right, of course.

(November 26, 2013 at 3:02 pm)Natedeezy Wrote: My beliefs aren't some indoctrination that I've read and accepted, in fact it's the opposite and similar to yours, only with a different conclusion.

Your belief is you don't follow a religion and accept that God exists because there is no proof.

My belief is, I don't follow a religion, but I believe that there exists evidence beyond our understanding that suggests there could be a God.

Not following a religion is not "a belief". It's a lack of belief. That's what atheism is. It's a blank slate.

How you interpret evidence is up to you, but we're allowed to call bullshit on it.

(November 26, 2013 at 3:02 pm)Natedeezy Wrote: Such as certain NDE's which, even with science, are unexplainable.

The once inexplicable has time and time again been explained. I don't doubt that what you chalk up to supernatural events will one day have a natural explanation.

(November 26, 2013 at 3:02 pm)Natedeezy Wrote: Or intelligence, such as the people who are happiest are in a state of love.

What's love got to do, got to do with it? What's love but -

Ahem, put the Tina Turner away, Rachel.

Anyway, seriously, what's love got to do with intelligence, may I ask?

(November 26, 2013 at 3:02 pm)Natedeezy Wrote: And the people who are most unhappy are in a state that lacks love.

By whose measure? I can love someone and be completely depressed at the same time.

(November 26, 2013 at 3:02 pm)Natedeezy Wrote: But what is love outside of a word? We cannot explain it, it'd be like explain what a tree looks like to a blind man. You have to experience it.

If we're deficient in one sense, we can still experience it through other senses and other measures, and where one person might be blind, another person can see it clearly. Science encourages us to share testing results and discuss them and retest them to find the closest answer. I don't know why the fact that you don't understand the chemical and psychological processes of a particular emotion somehow equals "god".

(November 26, 2013 at 3:02 pm)Natedeezy Wrote: Too me, this intelligence and why its incorporated within life suggests a map that might indicate a reason for our existence.

Lemme know what that reason is, when you find it. People have been loving for thousands of years, and people like you never seem to understand that you can love for love's sake.

(November 26, 2013 at 3:02 pm)Natedeezy Wrote: I believe God is that map. Why does it feel good when someone compliments you and why does it feel bad when someone insults something important to you?

Because someone just challenged whether or not that thing actually is important, and many people don't have the fortitude to not give a shit if other people don't share their interests.

(November 26, 2013 at 3:02 pm)Natedeezy Wrote: To me, there's something to this. It doesn't just exist for no real reason, as nothing seems to exist for no real reason, as evolution suggests.

There's always a reason - just not necessarily a sentient one.

(November 26, 2013 at 3:02 pm)Natedeezy Wrote: For these reasons, I believe in a God, but not in the form that most have been conditioned to understand, but in the form of love, which to me, from what I understand, seems to be the reason we exist.

I think you like the idea that there is something controlling all the crazy shit out there - it makes you feel better so you don't have to feel afraid.


Anyway, where was I?

Oh yeah, orgasm.

(November 26, 2013 at 1:29 pm)Natedeezy Wrote: Your belief that there is no higher existence, God, whatever, is based on the same level as mine, a belief.

Not all beliefs are created equal. Don't teach the "controversy", if you know what I mean.

(November 26, 2013 at 1:29 pm)Natedeezy Wrote: There are many examples of the unexplainable, especially in NDE's which as I mentioned, are our greatest link to understanding if there is something after this.

I still don't understand how a near death experience can show one an afterlife. And when you say "unexplainable", what you really should have said is unexplained. If there are plausible explanations remaining, it would be rather hasty to claim that it cannot be explained.

(November 26, 2013 at 1:29 pm)Natedeezy Wrote: And no matter what type of scientific explanation you can give, such as the release of DMT upon the moments of death, it can't explain everything

Perhaps that particular explanation is incomplete. I still wouldn't declare "MAGIC", until there are no other explanations. MAGIC has never been demonstrated as the correct explanation to anything before. Ever.

(November 26, 2013 at 1:29 pm)Natedeezy Wrote: As much as you'd like to argue that no God exists, you don't know for certain, it's nothing more than a belief

See the top response of this post.

(November 26, 2013 at 1:29 pm)Natedeezy Wrote: , and a one rooted in pessimism at that.

Threat of eternal damnation is optimism, then?

(November 26, 2013 at 1:29 pm)Natedeezy Wrote: Maybe if you'd stop looking at the glass half empty and spend a little more time not trapped in your mind, which you think you are in control of, which is clearly untrue, because if you were you'd be able to escape the misery you're clearly in, whether you'll admit it or not.

Merriam Webster.com Wrote:1ste·reo·type transitive verb \ˈster-ē-ə-ˌtīp, ˈstir-\
: to believe unfairly that all people or things with a particular characteristic are the same

In fact, I doubt that such things are any more prevalent in atheists at all.
Bolding mine.

(November 26, 2013 at 1:29 pm)Natedeezy Wrote: If you'd like to believe life can be explained by science, go ahead, but your trapped in the ego of your mind, where it believes it can understand everything, when in fact the examples I gave about hearing and seeing show this.

More useless mud slinging. Let's take a look at those examples:

(November 26, 2013 at 1:27 am)Natedeezy Wrote: Let me ask you this. We perceive the world through our 5 senses, yet we understand that things exist outside the perception of our senses, dog whistles for example. No person has heard a dog whistle because we cannot hear on that frequency level, and so the understanding that this frequency exists is based on a belief since we've never heard it. Same is true for light. And so isn't it possible that there exists something beyond the limitation of our human perception? Well, the answer is of course, yes. The example about sound describes it.

So tell me then, how do we know a dog whistle makes sound? How do we know infrared light exists? Or gamma rays? Just because we can't detect something directly with human senses doesn't mean they can't be detected at all. And yet no scientific instrument has ever detected any sort of god.

(November 26, 2013 at 1:29 pm)Natedeezy Wrote: And I'm not claiming to be right, I'm just not willing to try and base my entire decision on my mind, which is clearly quite limited in this seemingly infinite world.

G.K. Chesterton Wrote:“Do not be so open-minded that your brains fall out.”

(November 26, 2013 at 12:12 am)Natedeezy Wrote: Question.

I'll first say, I do not follow a particular religion, but I do believe in a creator or God or higher power or whatever you'd like to name it.

The reason I believe there is a creator is, there is so much intelligence within life, that it seems it points to the idea that it must have come from somewhere.

And the question I always ask people who believe in atheism is: Why does sex feel good?

Seems simple. But really, it's more complex that it may seem. Why is it that the area of the body that feels best when stimulated is also the area that is responsible for reproduction? For example, why isn't it the elbow that feels amazing and produces a feeling like an orgasm when rubbed? And why is it that we have hormones that make us horny? Well, it seems that the reason sex feels good and we have hormones that make us want to have sex is to give incentive to humans and animals to participate. And it just so happens that the result of sex is the continuation of life. If there is no God or creator or higher power, where does this intelligence come from? Where does ALL the intelligence in life come from, such as love and hate?

Isn't it possible that there is a God or whatever you'd like to call it, only it doesn't exist as a man in the sky or any form that most religions might describe it by that this intelligence originates from?

I've never heard the orgasm used as a reason for believing in God, so I must applaud you on that. I actually think the whole genital thing can't possibly be the result of intelligence. Why is piss and shit so intricately connected with the sexual system? Not great design. But the evolutionary answer is one of the easiest, creatures that evolved to enjoy sex reproduce more for obvious reasons.

(November 26, 2013 at 3:02 pm)Natedeezy Wrote: Such as certain NDE's which, even with science, are unexplainable.

Should we ask a mod to put that on autopost for ya?

(November 26, 2013 at 3:02 pm)Natedeezy Wrote: For these reasons, I believe in a God, but not in the form that most have been conditioned to understand, but in the form of love, which to me, from what I understand, seems to be the reason we exist.

Are you childeye? Enquiring minds wanna know!

(November 26, 2013 at 12:12 am)Natedeezy Wrote: Question.

I'll first say, I do not follow a particular religion, but I do believe in a creator or God or higher power or whatever you'd like to name it.

The reason I believe there is a creator is, there is so much intelligence within life, that it seems it points to the idea that it must have come from somewhere.

And the question I always ask people who believe in atheism is: Why does sex feel good?

Seems simple. But really, it's more complex that it may seem. Why is it that the area of the body that feels best when stimulated is also the area that is responsible for reproduction? For example, why isn't it the elbow that feels amazing and produces a feeling like an orgasm when rubbed? And why is it that we have hormones that make us horny? Well, it seems that the reason sex feels good and we have hormones that make us want to have sex is to give incentive to humans and animals to participate. And it just so happens that the result of sex is the continuation of life. If there is no God or creator or higher power, where does this intelligence come from? Where does ALL the intelligence in life come from, such as love and hate?

Isn't it possible that there is a God or whatever you'd like to call it, only it doesn't exist as a man in the sky or any form that most religions might describe it by that this intelligence originates from?

Wouldn't it make more sense for the organs responsible for sex to not be the same as those associated with the expulsion of waste from the body?

Why is it that pleasure is what you regard as the intelligent component of sex?

Would a more intelligent form of reproduction not simply be budding or asexual reproduction?

(November 26, 2013 at 3:24 pm)TheBeardedDude Wrote: Would a more intelligent form of reproduction not simply be budding or asexual reproduction?

Not unless we were programmed to mutate enough to be different genetically from whoever we budded off from. Asexual reproduction leads to homogenized genetic susceptible to diseases. That's why bananas and apples are sprayed to hell. They reproduce asexually.

Not intelligence in the sense of being intellectual, but intelligence that exists within life, more so of a rule.

And your example of love isn't real love. Real love is unconditional, love as most people describe and understand it today is very much attached to an understanding of the mind. Such as I love them, but only if they function within the conditions I've named. If you are in a "loving" relationship and they cheat on you, that love can easily turn to hate, and so you can see it's not real love, as real love is unconditional. Is it possible to love someone unconditionally? I'd argue yes, and it is only the mind that tells you differently. It's ultimately a choice, which is the beauty of life, we choose how we live it.

Just as if someone came and insulted you, although your conditioned mind might try to pull you into a state that you've understood to be correct for the situation, such as anger, it is ultimately a choice. You could choose to step back and not let what the person said or did effect you and love them either way. Most people live entirely in the state of their conditioned mind, which they think to be who they are and they are in control. But you can easily see is actually not a choice but a conditioning. There is no benefit to you by getting mad, yet people do it and it makes them feel rage inside, which isn't a pleasant state, even though some egos in here might say it is in spite, but really it's not. The only REAL joy in life is in a state of love, but again, not as most understand it. This is hard to explain, because it is a feeling, it'd be like trying to explain love to someone whose never felt it, which is impossible to comprehend through understanding with the mind unless you've experienced it.