(December 14, 2013 at 9:06 am)pocaracas Wrote:

(December 14, 2013 at 9:03 am)enrico Wrote: Your philosophy is terribly lacking.
The universe is made of matter, water, light and energy, air and space but your consciousness is a lot more powerful then that and the most powerful factor always win.

Evidence boy, evidence!!

Read this book and note the references to these thousand of NDE.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Big-Book-Near-...1571745475

(December 14, 2013 at 9:15 am)enrico Wrote: Read this book and note the references to these thousand of NDE.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Big-Book-Near-...1571745475

Yep, I'm definitely going to count a book written by a person with no medical training or education in neuroscience as evidence on a topic connected to medicine and neuroscience.

Any old asshole can write a book: show us the peer reviewed science that backs up your position, not this Deepak Chopra bullshit.

(December 14, 2013 at 9:11 am)Esquilax Wrote: Progress is possible for most of us. For people with their heads so far up their asses that their shit starts making sense... probably not. You could, however, quit drinking the kool aid any time you like.

Progress is possible in the spiritual life but i don't think you mean that do you?

Quote:I'm not doing this with you again, you petty little charlatan.

How do you know that i am small?
My avatar must confuse you.
Don't you know that i am mister universe?

Quote:I did hope, however, that you would ask this here, because it just shows how little attention you're actually paying to the things other people are posting to you. Read what I actually said again: do you believe you aren't going to die? You think there are immortals out there? If not, what else do I need to do to prove that we're going to die?

Are you sure i am the one that does not pay attention?
For me when the body die is like when i throw my car away and i continue my journey toward the goal with a different car.
In other words i never die.
It is you that think that when the body die everything is over so is you that don't pay attention.

Quote:Can you actually demonstrate another life beyond this one? No? But you can see that we're both alive right now, yes? So, what more do I need to do to prove that we know for sure we have this life?

NDE boy NDE thousand of these.

Quote:You could at least do us the courtesy of fucking paying attention before you pump out more of your bilge.

You need more philosophy boy so you will be able to understand what i mean.

Quote:Air and water are matter, you fucking buffoon.

Now you need to understand where the words come from.
Water,Acqua, aqua.
Never study latin do you?
By the way do you know why the latin gave the cancer this name?
Ok now i go to sleep.
See you next time and please don't get too cranky.
Did you know that when you are cranky many cells in your body die?

---

(December 14, 2013 at 9:21 am)Esquilax Wrote:

(December 14, 2013 at 9:15 am)enrico Wrote: Read this book and note the references to these thousand of NDE.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Big-Book-Near-...1571745475

Yep, I'm definitely going to count a book written by a person with no medical training or education in neuroscience as evidence on a topic connected to medicine and neuroscience.

Any old asshole can write a book: show us the peer reviewed science that backs up your position, not this Deepak Chopra bullshit.

Eh, i was going to sleep but now you are forcing me to stretch my time.
I should charge you for this.
Anyway if you want a professional neurosurgeon opinion then you can read Abe Alexander book.

(December 14, 2013 at 6:15 am)enrico Wrote: All very interesting considering the situation.
So, let me summarize.
From now on we have to throw in the rubbish bin of history all the knowledge that we have gather in the last million years.
This knowledge was telling us that the brain is the place where the thinking come from and the heart is the place where the feeling come from.
Actually is all a bit more complicated as the heart, the brain and all other factors are controlled by glands or cakras but i don't really want to go deep in this as it would be futile considering the level of consciousness among some people here.
In the meantime it is interesting and funny to see people searching something NON physical like love by using physical tools.
Gee, i open the heart and i can not find love or i open the skull and i can't find the thought. How sad.

It looks like you ignored my post. So, I'll put it to you again.

Why when 3500 people a year get heart transplants, they don't begin to love the people that the donor person loved? They continue to love who and how they loved with their own heart, just like before the transplant.

And why, when some people have damage done to their brains, sometimes their personalities change, including who and how they love?

(December 14, 2013 at 9:40 am)enrico Wrote: Anyway if you want a professional neurosurgeon opinion then you can read Abe Alexander book.

I assume you mean Eben Alexander, since the only Abe Alexander I could find who was still alive was a lawyer. Always a good first sign, when you can't even get the name of your professional opinion right.

Unsurprisingly, you've managed to completely misread what I actually asked for, in your mad rush to be the biggest twat you possibly could. Because I didn't ask you for a first person opinion piece from a neuroscientist; that's just an argument from authority. What I asked you for was peer reviewed mainstream scientific research that backs up your claims of near death experiences. Not everything a scientist writes counts as that, you know.

You were asked for evidence of this ridiculous claim, and for research you gave us a single book from someone unqualified, and the personal testimony of someone who might be. Neither of those is evidence; it's uninformed study in the first case, and personal opinion in the second.

Do you know that mainstream science has tested near death experiences, and every time they have, those tested have failed? Here's some experimental results, some actual evidence: they show that near death experiencers do not have experiences that match with the real world. They are, most likely, merely hallucinations.

Here's some real neuroscientific data: even people who aren't actually near death claim to have these near death experiences when they think they're dying.

Oh yeah: you can also induce these things artificially by merely depriving the brain of blood. There's your evidence, bitch.

Near death experiences are not death experiences so your evidence is irrelevant.
I want you to show me a person who was brain dead for say 2 hours, absolutely nothing worked and the brain was too long without oxygen, and then they come back. Now that would be a death experience.

(December 14, 2013 at 9:40 am)enrico Wrote: For me when the body die is like when i throw my car away and i continue my journey toward the goal with a different car.
In other words i never die.

In other words, to you life is cheap and this life is just a place to wipe your feet until the next one that someone convinced you you'll be getting. I can't begin to tell you how astonishingly dangerous such thinking is.

I fully realise I used the word "thinking" quite wrongly there.

(December 14, 2013 at 9:15 am)enrico Wrote:

(December 14, 2013 at 9:06 am)pocaracas Wrote: Evidence boy, evidence!!

Read this book and note the references to these thousand of NDE.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Big-Book-Near-...1571745475

Here's my personal experience.

About 8 years ago I was in a rather bad motorcycle accident (a ute ran a red light and I hit it and was thrown over the bonnet (hood). Luckily I was wearing my safety gear as helmets are compulsory in Oz)

My injuries themselves weren't life threatening but, unfortunately, I discovered I had a weak heart which decided to stop. Fortunately there was an ambulance crew on site when it happened.

Now, my heart stopped for nearly two minutes. In that time I saw nothing. I wasn't conscious at all and I don't remember any of it. There were no visions of heaven, hell, nirvana or any other locations of an afterlife.

Again, this was a personal experience. As are all of those in the book you're giving us as an example. Should you believe my example, my experience as evidence that there's not an afterlife? No, you shouldn't. And I shouldn't take peoples' "experiences" as proof that there is.

There have, however, been scientific studies into the phenomenon and some of those have successfully recreated the vision people see in supposed "NDEs". Basically it can be traced, at least partially, to chemical releases in the dying brain. Note that I say "dying", because none of the people who have experienced NDEs are actually dead.

Finally, I've heard the stories from Eben Alexander and while he is, indeed a Neurosurgeon I have doubts about his claims, especially as some have been debunked by his own ER doctor

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...-coma.html

(December 14, 2013 at 4:46 pm)Beccs Wrote: Here's my personal experience.
About 8 years ago I was in a rather bad motorcycle accident (a ute ran a red light and I hit it and was thrown over the bonnet (hood). Luckily I was wearing my safety gear as helmets are compulsory in Oz)
My injuries themselves weren't life threatening but, unfortunately, I discovered I had a weak heart which decided to stop. Fortunately there was an ambulance crew on site when it happened.
Now, my heart stopped for nearly two minutes. In that time I saw nothing. I wasn't conscious at all and I don't remember any of it. There were no visions of heaven, hell, nirvana or any other locations of an afterlife.
Again, this was a personal experience. As are all of those in the book you're giving us as an example. Should you believe my example, my experience as evidence that there's not an afterlife? No, you shouldn't. And I shouldn't take peoples' "experiences" as proof that there is.
There have, however, been scientific studies into the phenomenon and some of those have successfully recreated the vision people see in supposed "NDEs". Basically it can be traced, at least partially, to chemical releases in the dying brain. Note that I say "dying", because none of the people who have experienced NDEs are actually dead.

In previous posts and threads i already explained how the system works.
Everybody is different so everybody will have to experience different things.
God give you what you need according to your spiritual progress.
If you are not interested for the time being in spiritual progress why God should show you anything that would help you and facilitated your journey toward him?
It is like a love relationship so there is no wonder you did not experience anything.

Quote:Finally, I've heard the stories from Eben Alexander and while he is, indeed a Neurosurgeon I have doubts about his claims, especially as some have been debunked by his own ER doctor

In his book (Proof of Heaven) Eben A. explained how the system works or in this case how it does not works.
He said that to try to explain what he experienced is almost an impossible task.
It is like if for a day a monkey become human and then resumes his life as a monkey. Now at this stage he pretend to explain to other monkeys what he experienced during the time that his consciousness was human.
How could she do this considering that now she is again a monkey with a monkey consciousness ?
The same problem arise when he try to explain what happened during his NDE and what he experience with God.
That higher state of consciousness is in part behind him and beside how can a human understand what is too far from his-her consciousness.
An almost impossible task so there is no wonder that skeptics appear here and there.
It is only when someone develop his-her consciousness that is possible to grasp these sort of things.

(December 15, 2013 at 9:34 am)enrico Wrote: In previous posts and threads i already explained how the system works.
Everybody is different so everybody will have to experience different things.
God give you what you need according to your spiritual progress.
If you are not interested for the time being in spiritual progress why God should show you anything that would help you and facilitated your journey toward him?
It is like a love relationship so there is no wonder you did not experience anything.

Typical! You hear that Beccs? You just didn't believe hard enough? lol

(December 15, 2013 at 9:34 am)enrico Wrote: In his book (Proof of Heaven) Eben A. explained how the system works or in this case how it does not works.
He said that to try to explain what he experienced is almost an impossible task.
It is like if for a day a monkey become human and then resumes his life as a monkey. Now at this stage he pretend to explain to other monkeys what he experienced during the time that his consciousness was human.
How could she do this considering that now she is again a monkey with a monkey consciousness ?
The same problem arise when he try to explain what happened during his NDE and what he experience with God.
That higher state of consciousness is in part behind him and beside how can a human understand what is too far from his-her consciousness.
An almost impossible task so there is no wonder that skeptics appear here and there.
It is only when someone develop his-her consciousness that is possible to grasp these sort of things.

Have you ever considered that the reason it is so difficult to explain is because it is just a release of chemicals confusing the brain?