(January 7, 2014 at 11:27 pm)plaincents822 Wrote: I think that the people on this forum that call themselves feminists and others like them (more moderate, non-radical feminists) should really consider a name change, for a few reasons. First, I've seen the topic of feminism come up quite a few times on this forum and we keep on having this argument about who are the real feminists every single time. I think these moderate feminists have to accept the fact that some crazy people have stolen the label 'feminist' for themselves and to the common person it is associated more with radical feminism.

Second, if feminism is supposed to be about the equality of men and women, why call it feminism? That is honestly what makes me somewhat skeptical. It's like if I said I'm for racial equality, but you can call me a caucasianist.

Third, feminists have told me that mens views are considered. But yet have somehow not considered that many men don't want to be called a feminist. Not even because of the radical feminist association or that they disagree with the views, but because of the desire to retain their masculinity. It's the same reason a lot of men don't wear pink.

Pick a new name, you'll get more men.

I agree here. People who are against racial discrimination don;t call themselves 'blackists or non whiteists' just anti sexist is a perfectly good term

or more generally since I am against discrimination based on sex, sexual orientation, race, culture and in some instance species just egalitarian will do for me.

I'm not sure if this thread is completely derailed or if it's right on track?

(January 7, 2014 at 2:48 pm)MarxRaptor Wrote: Feminism is a ideology not a race. It isn't generalizing to throw people of one ideology together.

A better example would be "Hitler was a white nationalist, shows you the kind of people white nationalists are."

Implying that ALL feminists are as bad as white nationalists.

why 'white nationalists? WHy not all racial nationalists or are you singling out white people as if Racism isn't in all races.

(January 8, 2014 at 1:04 am)là bạn điên Wrote: why 'white nationalists? WHy not all racial nationalists or are you singling out white people as if Racism isn't in all races.

Because that was the example he opted to use.

How to turn into a discussion about racism?

(January 7, 2014 at 11:27 pm)plaincents822 Wrote: I think these moderate feminists have to accept the fact that some crazy people have stolen the label 'feminist' for themselves and to the common person it is associated more with radical feminism.

Here's the thing, though: I'm not sure that label is all down to the radical feminists. I freely grant that they are the extremely vocal minority, but one has to admit that it's also wonderfully convenient for those that oppose the feminist message- or just don't want to deal with it- to have an obviously crazy minority that they can pretend represent the entire group.

This is an extreme being played up by both sides of the issue, and merely abandoning the term feminist to the radicals isn't going to change that, because the association is going to follow with the premise, and not the word. It's the same way that "freethinker," and "secularist," and even "evolutionist," is synonymous with atheist; those terms describe somewhat similar things, and so they've been attached with atheism despite being different words. The only thing we'd gain from fleeing from the term is the image that there's something to flee from, and possibly the idea that we're being dishonest by dressing up our views as something else.

Quote:Second, if feminism is supposed to be about the equality of men and women, why call it feminism?

Because female equality- in all senses, not just the ones that are convenient for women- automatically redresses many of the unequal issues that males face, like the issues men face in custody and divorce cases, gender segregated drafts, and numerous others.

The label of "feminist" has been mis-used and abused to the point where anyone introducing themselves as a "feminist" really gives me no new information about them. Do they support equal rights, just more rights for women, a society where freedom of speech is banned if the speech is hateful?

That is why I prefer the term "egalitarian". I support equal rights for men, women, people of different races, sexual orientations, etc. Because at the end of the day, everyone experiences inequality at some point, and that is wrong.

But yeah, to classify all (or even most) feminists as feminazis is just plain ludicrous.

(January 8, 2014 at 3:40 am)Esquilax Wrote: Here's the thing, though: I'm not sure that label is all down to the radical feminists. I freely grant that they are the extremely vocal minority, but one has to admit that it's also wonderfully convenient for those that oppose the feminist message- or just don't want to deal with it- to have an obviously crazy minority that they can pretend represent the entire group.

except I support the equality feminist message and have utter contempt for this small but hugely influential group of totalitarians

Quote:Second, if feminism is supposed to be about the equality of men and women, why call it feminism?

Quote:Because female equality- in all senses, not just the ones that are convenient for women- automatically redresses many of the unequal issues that males face, like the issues men face in custody and divorce cases, gender segregated drafts, and numerous others.

It is very rarely to never about inequality for men.

(January 8, 2014 at 5:52 am)là bạn điên Wrote: except I support the equality feminist message and have utter contempt for this small but hugely influential group of totalitarians

Me too- perhaps in less strong words than "utter contempt." My point is that the current construction of the stereotypical "feminazi" feminist isn't just something made by the radical feminists themselves.

Quote:It is very rarely to never about inequality for men.

Perhaps not specifically, but then, feminism is, specifically, a movement based around redressing the- more widespread and obvious- inequality toward women. This does not change the fact that, in redressing those issues and working toward correcting the assumption that women have certain roles they should take, and ones they should not, many of the inequalities toward men would also be repaired. Men wouldn't be disadvantaged in child custody cases if "women=mother" wasn't supposed to be the norm.