(January 7, 2014 at 12:14 am)Fenix Wrote: You're over thinking this.

All (to the extent of my knowledge) religions have a villian(s) and Hero(es).

It's to add balance and depth to the storyline. There wouldn't be a good story out of a hero who skipped through a field of daisies to find a magical rose and skipped back, but not before having a nap and some chocolate milk.

I mean, I enjoy those kind of stories. But, apparently, humanity likes to be self-absorbed and pushy on their opinions and experiences.

Kudos to whoever can guess my favorite Philosopher based on what I've said.

Obviously, we can't determine the nature of a 'god' without first understanding what we mean when we call something a 'god'.

And trying to make sense of a canaanite war god that was written by people who have no common sense and are a group of the most hateful, promiscuous and bitter people in history is just going to be a headache.
^Not anti-Semite. >Anti bible authors< (I'm part Jewish from my mom's side)

We need evidence before we go willy-nilly.

The problem is that the "hero" of christianity is an unbeatable, invincible individual. Boring invincible heroes don't make for exciting stories.

Quote:We've learned a few things about the old Hebrew since then, you need to update yourself. As far as sin being different from evil that's just crazy, you do not want to think you do evil when you sin, typical, don't want to take responsibility for your own actions. God states over and over that sin is evil.

Just because Yahweh is claimed to have said it, doesn't make it true. I'm not saying I never do anything wrong, and I don't reject christianity just because I want to keep doing what I want to do. I reject it because I don't think the character is worthy of worship, and I don't think the book is coherent enough to be inspired by a divine being that's actually competent.

I had the same question when I was little.. but I never considered atheism as an option.. I mean being an atheist would not answer that question either.

My religion doesn't stop me from asking such questions at all so why not being muslim and asking such questions? If I find the truth somewhere else I wouldn't be hesitate to convert.

But I found the answer that satisfied me in my own religion.

Let's assume the opposite.. what if there is no evil? (Give ur self 20 minutes to think about that)

Then we will never know what is good!!

how will u know honesty if there r no lies?

But why do we need to know good by experiencing evil?

I think humans r here on earth to grow .. we r here to learn .. suffer to know .. to be better humans .. to grown into beautiful creatures.. and why god didn't created us like that from the beginning like angles? Thats because god wanted us to have our own choice .. to choose being good by ourselves and have our free well.

I think this lecture would really clear things to u even as a non muslim .. u don't have to be muslim to benefit from the quran!! God said that he sent out to all humanity. . So

That's Dr. Jeffrey Lang talking about these questions..

He is a previous atheist and he disbelieved in god because of that question .. why god created evil.

u would like his lecture he's funny and super intelligent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OGm5I6Ccz8

(January 7, 2014 at 12:36 pm)ska88 Wrote: I had the same question when I was little.. but I never considered atheism as an option.. I mean being an atheist would not answer that question either.

How could you possibly suggest that atheism, a position without belief in gods, would not have an answer to the question of why god might have created evil, and a far more definitive one than any religion might produce?

Quote:My religion doesn't stop me from asking such questions at all so why not being muslim and asking such questions? If I find the truth somewhere else I wouldn't be hesitate to convert.

Because "believing islam" is not the ground state of being for people? It's an additional claim that one needs to justify themselves up to believing, not start there.

Quote:But I found the answer that satisfied me in my own religion.

Let's assume the opposite.. what if there is no evil? (Give ur self 20 minutes to think about that)

Then we will never know what is good!!

Bull: we've never known magic, but we can conceive of it. Human imagination is rife with things that didn't exist, yet were still conceived of. What makes you think that a simple opposite of a moral position is so advanced that it'd be beyond us, when quantum theory is not?

Quote:how will u know honesty if there r no lies?

By hypothetically picturing what it would be like to express a view that does not reflect reality.

(January 7, 2014 at 12:01 am)ChadWooters Wrote: I guess if one had an uncontrollable compulsive need for taking it up the ass then atheism is one way to ease your shame.

That's kinda hilarious. I would counter, and further contend, that anybody who would still argue with you is taking a position which is not atheism.

Atheism is just getting away from your position, that all motivations can be ascribed to an identified creator; it is not always identifying myself as creator.

I understand the question, and would rephrase it thusly:

to what distant star do you align your bow, helmsman

And it is not "atheism," yet Gwynnite is not really a discussion for an atheist forum.

(January 7, 2014 at 12:36 pm)ska88 Wrote: Let's assume the opposite.. what if there is no evil? (Give ur self 20 minutes to think about that)

Then we will never know what is good!!

I wouldn't consider it evil to only give 2% of my earnings to charity, yet I would consider it "more good" to donate 20%. There is no evil in this example, but I can still determine the "more good" action.

Wow. Some of these comments are just so... immature. Is there not a way we can civilly discuss our ideas and differences?

Must one side stoop as low as the other out of compulsive offense?

Some of ya'll need to consider the source and not just think you're more mature than that, but practice it as well.

I feel like a mom, geez.

There is no such thing as 'good' or 'evil' there are only circumstances and the effects that they have on said individuals.

Unfavorable things can happen to one person that has a positive effect on another person. This is life.

It is these actions that have caused us to tie mystical properties to occurrences in our life and find a divine meaning behind them. As human beings we are a curious lot. We also find patterns in our daily life. It's these patterns and circumstances that have helped our brain develop into what it is now. But, despite the misconception that evolution creates a perfect product, we are not evolved as to where we could be. Our minds still struggle with morality, mystical thinking and lack of leadership.

tl;dr
Our evolution is the cause of these questions and the lack of mental power to conquer them. Evil and Good do not exist outside of the mind. These age old beliefs have caused us to create religion at an early part of our evolution when our minds were even more naive and impressionable than they are now. The results? Religions that are from multiple authors that contradict each other, mass relation and storyline/plot redundancies, Holy Wars, Genocide, emotional/physical torment/torture.

But humans don't need religion to bite each others head off. There are plenty of other things we can disagree about.

^ like penis size.

I have suddenly decided that I like Belac Enrobso....


xD

(January 8, 2014 at 4:00 am)Fenix Wrote: Wow. Some of these comments are just so... immature. Is there not a way we can civilly discuss our ideas and differences?

Must one side stoop as low as the other out of compulsive offense?

Some of ya'll need to consider the source and not just think you're more mature than that, but practice it as well.

I feel like a mom, geez.

There is no such thing as 'good' or 'evil' there are only circumstances and the effects that they have on said individuals.

Unfavorable things can happen to one person that has a positive effect on another person. This is life.

It is these actions that have caused us to tie mystical properties to occurrences in our life and find a divine meaning behind them. As human beings we are a curious lot. We also find patterns in our daily life. It's these patterns and circumstances that have helped our brain develop into what it is now. But, despite the misconception that evolution creates a perfect product, we are not evolved as to where we could be. Our minds still struggle with morality, mystical thinking and lack of leadership.

tl;dr
Our evolution is the cause of these questions and the lack of mental power to conquer them. Evil and Good do not exist outside of the mind. These age old beliefs have caused us to create religion at an early part of our evolution when our minds were even more naive and impressionable than they are now. The results? Religions that are from multiple authors that contradict each other, mass relation and storyline/plot redundancies, Holy Wars, Genocide, emotional/physical torment/torture.

But humans don't need religion to bite each others head off. There are plenty of other things we can disagree about.

Although I'm muslim I really lovvved what u said.

That's wise.

The bad experiences and painful moment I had.. make me stronger and wiser.. and I appreciated many things I had and never noticed before.

I know I believe on God and religions and last day .. unlike you I guess .. but I have to say that what u said is so wise and deep.

---

(January 7, 2014 at 2:21 pm)Esquilax Wrote:

(January 7, 2014 at 12:36 pm)ska88 Wrote: I had the same question when I was little.. but I never considered atheism as an option.. I mean being an atheist would not answer that question either.

How could you possibly suggest that atheism, a position without belief in gods, would not have an answer to the question of why god might have created evil, and a far more definitive one than any religion might produce?

Quote:My religion doesn't stop me from asking such questions at all so why not being muslim and asking such questions? If I find the truth somewhere else I wouldn't be hesitate to convert.

Because "believing islam" is not the ground state of being for people? It's an additional claim that one needs to justify themselves up to believing, not start there.

Quote:But I found the answer that satisfied me in my own religion.

Let's assume the opposite.. what if there is no evil? (Give ur self 20 minutes to think about that)

Then we will never know what is good!!

Bull: we've never known magic, but we can conceive of it. Human imagination is rife with things that didn't exist, yet were still conceived of. What makes you think that a simple opposite of a moral position is so advanced that it'd be beyond us, when quantum theory is not?

Quote:how will u know honesty if there r no lies?

By hypothetically picturing what it would be like to express a view that does not reflect reality.

I have to tell u that human brain can not imagine something that never exist.. u have to hear, listen or see the information first.

The human brain only creates new images using the information stored !!

U have to know than .. its so interesting ..!! I'll try to get a documentary or something to u about this.

We can't imagine something that never existed? so where did all the other deities go? The fairies and dragons and vampires and stuff? People can imagine things that never existed. It's not that hard.