(January 21, 2014 at 8:23 am)Aractus Wrote: Now let's look at what professionals say.

• Why Your Cat Needs Animal-Based Protein
  
  The protein in animal tissue has what is known as a complete amino acid profile. Amino acids are the building blocks of protein. Proteins derived from plants don't contain all the amino acids critical for the health of an obligate carnivore.
  
  You have the physiological ability to turn plant proteins into the missing pieces needed for a complete amino acid profile. Your cat's body isn't equipped to do this.
  
  One of the amino acids missing in plants is taurine. Taurine is found in animal muscle meat, especially the heart and liver. Taurine deficiency causes serious health problems in kitties, including blindness and heart disease. Feeding a cat a taurine-deficient vegetarian diet, then supplementing with a taurine pill is similar, in my book, to eating iceberg lettuce as your sole food source and taking a synthetic multivitamin. It doesn't balance out.
  
  

There you go.

• If you REALLY want to feed your cat a vegan diet:
  
  Some people want to make their pets vegan because of religious reasons or personal beliefs. My advice to you would be to consider not having a pet. It is unnatural to take a carnivore and ask them to eat a vegan diet.
  
  I’ve focused on cats here. It is possible to have a dog be a vegetarian. (There is actually a prescription vegetarian food.) This is because dogs need 2-3 times less protein than cats do. I still don’t recommend making your dog a vegetarian or vegan, but if someone is adamant then I’ll recommend a prescription vegetarian dog food. But there is no safe way to feed a cat a vegan diet.
  
  

People can have a perfectly balanced vegetarian diet - but this is not true of vegan diets. Vegan diets are dangerous, they lack essential nutrients that we need - not just proteins, but other things as well. Dairy is one of the easiest ways so supplement a vegetarian diet to get these required nutrients - what you are advocating, and I have already proven, is a diet that if followed without buying any processed foods is deficient in a number of areas, particularly B12 - and a B12 deficiency can permanently harm babies just like smoking and drinking while pregnant.

Also, it is unsafe to give a Baby vegan formula. It can result in DEATH!! If breast milk is unavailable - Babies have to be given formula made from cow's milk. You must acknowledge this point.

Nope, you are just wrong. Yes cats require taurine, taurine is present in algae, but you are right the amount of taurine in plants is negligible.

Firstly vegan cat foods are supplemented with synthetic taurine. The only reason why vegan pet foods may not be safe is because they have not been fully scientifically tested. But there is nothing in meat that could not be added to vegan pet food from vegan sources, its just a matter of understanding the physiology and chemistry.

You however are not a cat, and humans have the enzymes required to synthesise taurine from cysteine. So the argument still stands, all essential amino acids for human health can be found in plants.

You say its unnatural to feed a cat food vegan food, but surely then it is "unnatural to feed canivors food which has been farmed, or be kept in a house or be given medicines when they are ill. Don't appeal to nature, its just nonsense.

This obsession with processed food is ridiculous. Processed food is unnatural and good, just like medicine or agriculture or central heating.

Vegan breast milk is not deficient in any nutrients if the mother has a well planned diet, and there are always supplements that can be take. Soya milk infant formula milk, has also been shown to be as safe as cows milk, although breast milk is still best.

I have presented all the evidence, but all you have is assertions. Provide some evidence, or concede the point.

Tell me why the NHS or the American Dietetic association would lie about the evidence? Do you have some contrary evidence? If so present it!

The ADA say "appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases", If you want to be healthy, then go vegan.

---

http://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/1...-year-old/

Quote:A 12 year old girl raised on a strict vegan diet was admitted to the Royal Hospital for Sick Children in Glasgow, Scotland, suffering from a severe form of rickets. The girl had already experienced multiple fractures and been diagnosed with a degenerated spine comparable to that of an unhealthy 80-year-old woman.
Fox News reports the hospital doctors are under pressure to report the couple to police and social workers. Dr. Faisal Ahmed, a pediatrician treating the child, declined to discuss specifics, but allowed the dangers of forcing children to follow a strict vegan diet need to be publicized.
If raised strictly vegan, the child would almost certainly have severe deficiencies of Vitamins A and D, both of which are essential bone nutrients that can only be obtained from animal products. In all likelihood, she would also be lacking needed calcium, zinc, B-12 as well as other B vitamins, Vitamin K, the EPA and DHA fatty acids and the sulfur containing amino acids methionine and cysteine.
Although the human body is theoretically capable of converting beta carotene into true Vitamin A, children are not able to do so efficiently if at all. Sunlight could have provided Vitamin D but only if the family lived outdoors in the tropics and not in a northern clime like Scotland.

---

(January 21, 2014 at 9:17 am)jg2014 Wrote: Nope, you are just wrong. Yes cats require taurine, taurine is present in algae, but you are right the amount of taurine in plants is negligible.

Firstly vegan cat foods are supplemented with synthetic taurine. The only reason why vegan pet foods may not be safe is because they have not been fully scientifically tested. But there is nothing in meat that could not be added to vegan pet food from vegan sources, its just a matter of understanding the physiology and chemistry.

Are you a qualified vet?

---

Quote:You say its unnatural to feed a cat food vegan food

That's NOT what I said.

---

FYI, you morons keep claiming vegetarians/vegans live longer and are healthier. If this is really the case then explain this:

Quote:

Quote:You say its unnatural to feed a cat food vegan food

That's NOT what I said.

You just wrote that....

(January 21, 2014 at 8:23 am)Aractus Wrote: It is unnatural to take a carnivore and ask them to eat a vegan diet.

If a baby is fed on pure soya milk and apple juice, like the baby was, then yes that would be unhealthy. But if they are fed a soya milk based infant formula they will get all the nutrients they need. Do you understand the difference between and anecdote and a scientific study? Can you guess why the two are different?

Name one single essential amino acid that is deficient in a vegan diet. You will not be able to.

I gave you a list of vegan sources for all vitamin, but they are all listed here http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/Vegetarianhea...diets.aspx

(January 21, 2014 at 9:38 am)jg2014 Wrote: You just wrote that....

(January 21, 2014 at 8:23 am)Aractus Wrote: It is unnatural to take a carnivore and ask them to eat a vegan diet.

No, I quoted it. Dr. Marie (a veterinarian) is the one who said it.

I'll ask you again - are you a qualified vet or not?

Re the number of centenarians in each country. It will be down to a number of factors, eg quality of medical care, obesity rates, social factors, genetics, prevalence of smoking and indeed the general quality of the diet, an important consideration of which will be meat consumption)

For instance on average a Japanese person consumes only a third(43kg per year) of the amount of meat a person in the USA would consume (125 kg per year)

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/d...ate-change

---

(January 21, 2014 at 9:48 am)Aractus Wrote:

(January 21, 2014 at 9:38 am)jg2014 Wrote: You just wrote that....

No, I quoted it. Dr. Marie (a veterinarian) is the one who said it.

I'll ask you again - are you a qualified vet or not?

If you don't agree with what you posted, then you should make that clear.

No I am not a vet, but trust me I am more qualified than a vet! I made a specific point against what the vet said using sound reasoning, if you cant argue against it then stop appealing to authority.

Regardlless, I could just as easily find my own authorities (eg a vet named Dr Andrew Knight) who says "There is no scientific reason why a diet comprised only of plant, mineral and synthetically-based ingredients cannot be formulated to meet all of these needs. In fact, several commercially-available vegan diets aim to do so, and have jointly supported a healthy population of thousands of vegan cats, dogs and ferrets (who are also naturally carnivorous) for many years (Weisman 2004)"

http://www.vegepets.info/diets/veg_feline.html

(January 21, 2014 at 9:55 am)jg2014 Wrote: Re the number of centurions in each country. It will be down to a number of factors, eg quality of medical care, obesity rates, social factors, genetics, prevalence of smoking and indeed the general quality of the diet, an important consideration of which will be meat consumption)

For instance on average a Japanese person consumes only a third(43kg per year) of the amount of meat a person in the USA would consume (125 kg per year)

The number of centurions in each country depends solely on whether the country is part of the Roman Empire and calendars in that country still reads before 5th century AD.



The Japanese makes up for quantity with quality. They probably eat many times more dolphin and whale meat than the rest if the world combined.

:p

(January 21, 2014 at 9:55 am)jg2014 Wrote: No I am not a vet, but trust me I am more qualified than a vet!

Um, trust me no you aren't.

In fact the very statement you just made is akin to saying you're more qualified than a physician to provide me with medical advice.

Try reading please:

http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/hea...egans.aspx

• Why Your Cat Can't Process Carbohydrates
  Another indicator your cat is designed to eat meat and not carbohydrates is that her body doesn't produce the enzymes needed to digest carbs.
  
  The only carbs cats in the wild eat are already digested by their prey. When a wild feline eats a prey animal, the stomach contents of the prey contain a certain amount of already digested carbohydrates.
  
  Your cat's digestive system isn't designed to break down vegetables to release the nutrients they provide.
  
  Omnivores and herbivores have slower digestion, but food passes quickly (within hours) through the GI tract of an obligate carnivore. That's why your kitty is built to eat relatively small amounts of highly digestible, energy packed food that provides optimal levels of vitamins, minerals and micronutrients. In other words, animal meat.
  
  Veggies just don't fill the bill when it comes to feline nourishment.

http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/hea...o-eat.aspx

• A two-year research project conducted at the Waltham Centre for Pet Nutrition in Leicestershire, England indicates that healthy pet cats regulate their nutrient intake to mimic what they would eat in the wild.
  
  The study demonstrated kitties have a daily calorie ‘intake target’ that is equal to 52 percent protein, 36 percent fat and 12 percent carbohydrate.

---

And FYI I already covered the scientific reasons why cats need to eat meat - and not just that but certain types of meat.

(January 21, 2014 at 10:29 am)Aractus Wrote:

(January 21, 2014 at 9:55 am)jg2014 Wrote: No I am not a vet, but trust me I am more qualified than a vet!

Um, trust me no you aren't.

In fact the very statement you just made is akin to saying you're more qualified than a physician to provide me with medical advice.

Um, in this case, trust me I really am.

If your doctor tells you a vegan diet is unhealthy they are wrong. You are such a hypocrite. You give out all this medical advice in opposition to what the doctors of the NHS and ADA say, in addition to the studies I provide, THEN you try to appeal to authority! ridiculous

(January 21, 2014 at 10:29 am)Aractus Wrote: http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/hea...egans.aspx

• Why Your Cat Can't Process Carbohydrates
  Another indicator your cat is designed to eat meat and not carbohydrates is that her body doesn't produce the enzymes needed to digest carbs.
  
  The only carbs cats in the wild eat are already digested by their prey. When a wild feline eats a prey animal, the stomach contents of the prey contain a certain amount of already digested carbohydrates.
  
  Your cat's digestive system isn't designed to break down vegetables to release the nutrients they provide.
  
  Omnivores and herbivores have slower digestion, but food passes quickly (within hours) through the GI tract of an obligate carnivore. That's why your kitty is built to eat relatively small amounts of highly digestible, energy packed food that provides optimal levels of vitamins, minerals and micronutrients. In other words, animal meat.
  
  Veggies just don't fill the bill when it comes to feline nourishment.

http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/hea...o-eat.aspx

• A two-year research project conducted at the Waltham Centre for Pet Nutrition in Leicestershire, England indicates that healthy pet cats regulate their nutrient intake to mimic what they would eat in the wild.
  
  The study demonstrated kitties have a daily calorie ‘intake target’ that is equal to 52 percent protein, 36 percent fat and 12 percent carbohydrate.

---

And FYI I already covered the scientific reasons why cats need to eat meat - and not just that but certain types of meat.

Giving animals vegan cat food is not just like giving them vegetables. Its formulated to have high protein, low carbs, just like meat. If there is anything missing there is no scientific reason why we cannot just either obtain that substance from plants of synthesise it. Do you have any understanding of chemistry? There is nothing in nature which cannot be at least potentially be made in a lab for vegan sources. NOTHING. Not protein, not vitamins or minerals. All that is required is research and time.

Here is some ACTUAL evidence rather than just opinion, that vegetarian cat diets are healthy.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16817716
http://www.vegepets.info/resources/Publi...A-2006.pdf

Regardless, we are not cats! I don't think we should keep carnivores as pets unless we can give them vegan food. so your argument is completely irrelevant.

I just don't see how any vegetarian will stay as healthy as an omnivore if they always refrain from ingesting the spirit of animals.

(January 21, 2014 at 9:55 am)jg2014 Wrote: No I am not a vet, but trust me I am more qualified than a vet!

What, you have over 8 years or college? You think you are more qualified then a vet, yet I doubt you know what makes a carnivore a carnivore or a herbivore a herbivore.

You talk like a christian, are you a poe or just being a troll?