(January 20, 2014 at 11:29 pm)Luckie Wrote:

Those are actual quotes? That's quite interesting.

(January 20, 2014 at 11:34 pm)EgoRaptor Wrote: Theocratic fascists betrayed American values when they changed the national slogan of E pluribus unum to "In God We Trust". It amounts to treason in my opinion.

Is this a fasciast calling a fasciast a fasciast moment, or am I drunk?


chad32,
Yep I looked them up once upon a time. I couldn't believe it either.

It's just sad that in the old days you had presidents and politicians saying these things, but nowadays you pretty much have to be a christian to be president. Or in politics for the most part.

(January 22, 2014 at 12:22 pm)Drich Wrote: So I bet you guys hate documents like this:

Congress endorsed bible

Quote:Congressional resolution, September 12, 1782, endorsing Robert Aitken's Bible

wikipedia Wrote:The Constitution was adopted on September 17, 1787, by the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, and ratified by conventions in eleven States. It went into effect on March 4, 1789.[2]

Pre-constitution doesn't count because there wasn't official separation of church and state until the law of the land was laid down.

(January 22, 2014 at 12:22 pm)Drich Wrote: George Washington's Prayer journal

Our first president prayed, therefore the country was founded on his religion. Uh, no...did you not read his quote?

(January 22, 2014 at 12:22 pm)Drich Wrote: Thomas Jefferson's famous prayer for peace widsom and guidance

Politics. Thomas Jefferson and religion

Quote:The religious views of Thomas Jefferson diverged widely from the orthodox Christianity of his day. Throughout his life Jefferson was intensely interested in theology, religious studies, and morality.[1] Jefferson was most closely connected with Unitarianism and the religious philosophy of Christian deism.[2]

Christian deism

Quote:Christian deism, in the philosophy of religion, is a standpoint that branches from Christianity. It refers to a deist who believes in the moral teachings—but not divinity—of Jesus. Corbett and Corbett (1999) cite John Adams and Thomas Jefferson as exemplars.[1]

(January 22, 2014 at 12:22 pm)Drich Wrote: Lincoln's various sciptural quotes:

Abraham Lincoln and religion

Quote:Abraham Lincoln's religious beliefs are a matter of debate. Lincoln grew up in a highly religious family, but never joined any church. As a young man he was a skeptic. He frequently referenced God and quoted the Bible; he attended Protestant church services with his wife and children, and after the deaths of two children became more intensely concerned with God's plan for mankind.[1] He was private about his beliefs and respected the beliefs of others. Lincoln never made a clear profession of standard Christian beliefs; he did believe in an all-powerful God that shaped events and, by 1865, was expressing those beliefs in major speeches.[2]

I might give you this one.

(January 22, 2014 at 12:22 pm)Drich Wrote: Teddy's ten reasons for going to church.

What does this have to do with separation of church and state again?

(January 22, 2014 at 12:22 pm)Drich Wrote: I know one of you will try, but if the truth is your goal, it is next to impossiable to argue with the quotes and passages these men left behind as a testament to their faiths.

I know one of you will try, but if the truth is your goal, it is next to impossiable to argue with the quotes and passages these men left behind as a testament to their faiths adamancy for separation of church and state.

Wham bam, thank you Madame

(January 22, 2014 at 12:45 pm)Darkstar Wrote:

Quote:Congressional resolution, September 12, 1782, endorsing Robert Aitken's Bible

wikipedia Wrote:The Constitution was adopted on September 17, 1787, by the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, and ratified by conventions in eleven States. It went into effect on March 4, 1789.[2]

Pre-constitution doesn't count because there wasn't official separation of church and state until the law of the land was laid down.

You do know there wasn't a 'law' in the consitution that seperated Church and state right?
That did not happen till the bill of rights in 1891, which means the earilier efforts to approve and endorse Mr. Aithken's bible is still indeed a reflection of the works and will of our founding Fathers.

Quote:Our first president prayed, therefore the country was founded on his religion. Uh, no...did you not read his quote?

Our first president prayed like the rest of the founding Father's therefore our values are based on their collective religion.

Quote:The religious views of Thomas Jefferson diverged widely from the orthodox Christianity of his day.

So do I, but that doesn't make Him or I any less Christian.

Quote:Throughout his life Jefferson was intensely interested in theology, religious studies, and morality.[1] Jefferson was most closely connected with Unitarianism and the religious philosophy of Christian deism.[2]

Christian deism

Quote:Christian deism, in the philosophy of religion, is a standpoint that branches from Christianity. It refers to a deist who believes in the moral teachings—but not divinity—of Jesus. Corbett and Corbett (1999) cite John Adams and Thomas Jefferson as exemplars.[1]

So?
I do not agree with the doctrine of orginal sin (as it is not biblical) nor am I in agreement with the traditional doctrines of predestination as they make many non biblical leaps.

None of this makes Jefferson an atheist. Do you consider me an atheist?
And yet I do not consider myself in agreement with 18th century theology muck like jefferson did not completely jive with that theology.

(January 22, 2014 at 12:22 pm)Drich Wrote: Lincoln's various sciptural quotes:

Abraham Lincoln and religion

Quote:Abraham Lincoln's religious beliefs are a matter of debate. Lincoln grew up in a highly religious family, but never joined any church. As a young man he was a skeptic. He frequently referenced God and quoted the Bible; he attended Protestant church services with his wife and children, and after the deaths of two children became more intensely concerned with God's plan for mankind.[1] He was private about his beliefs and respected the beliefs of others. Lincoln never made a clear profession of standard Christian beliefs; he did believe in an all-powerful God that shaped events and, by 1865, was expressing those beliefs in major speeches.[2]

I might give you this one.

(January 22, 2014 at 12:22 pm)Drich Wrote: Teddy's ten reasons for going to church.

You can debate all you like but I left you with 2 pages of bible quotes the man used in his various speaches.. And not just passing references but alot of these quotes were the keystones to his speaches.

This is not something an unbeliever would do. Heck this is not some most believer presidents would do. Look at all the ones who came before him..

Quote:What does this have to do with separation of church and state again?

Begs the question I was not addressing the current understanding of that term. I was answering the OP that said our founding Fathers were anti religion.

(January 22, 2014 at 12:22 pm)Drich Wrote: I know one of you will try, but if the truth is your goal, it is next to impossiable to argue with the quotes and passages these men left behind as a testament to their faiths. I know one of you will try, but if the truth is your goal, it is next to impossiable to argue with the quotes and passages these men left behind as a testament to their faiths

(January 22, 2014 at 1:50 pm)Luckie Wrote: Wham bam, thank you Madame

haven't you guys learned not to count your chicken before the hatch?