Great quote from Sam Harris...

"There is clearly a sacred dimension to our existence, and coming to terms with it could well be the highest purpose of human life...[I]t must be possible to bring reason, spirituality, and ethics together in our thinking about the world. This would be the beginning of a rational approach to our deepest personal concerns. It would also be the end of faith."

Who agrees or disagrees with this statement and why?

Spirituality is just as irritating as any other supernatural bullshit. Its basically making shit up because you feel special.

(February 6, 2014 at 4:44 pm)Insanity Wrote: Spirituality is just as irritating as any other supernatural bullshit. Its basically making shit up because you feel special.

Also my feelings on the subject.

Yeah, I have no trouble appropriating the word "sacred" from religion but I have no use for "spirituality". Of course it is descriptive of certain behaviors.

In general I see "spirituality" as the pursuit of something beyond our animal nature. It is a desire to regard life from a "Martian perspective" and to rise above the mundane. To my mind spirituality is essentially escapist toward matters of the heart and flesh.

What is Spirituality?

(February 6, 2014 at 4:36 pm)dscross Wrote: Great quote from Sam Harris...

"There is clearly a sacred dimension to our existence, and coming to terms with it could well be the highest purpose of human life...[I]t must be possible to bring reason, spirituality, and ethics together in our thinking about the world. This would be the beginning of a rational approach to our deepest personal concerns. It would also be the end of faith."

Who agrees or disagrees with this statement and why?

I think that Harris is being perhaps a bit liberal with the word 'spiritual', but after having seen him speak and debate, I'm quite confident that he's using that term far differently than Deepak Chopra would in this context. There may very well be a level of consciousness or awareness that few if any can, have, or will be able to obtain. These events might be tied to the seemingly universal experiences that appear to cross both borders and faiths across the world and throughout time. However as a neuroscientist I'm pretty sure that Harris would agree that there is no reason to posit that this is at all a supernatural phenomena, merely just an aspect of consciousness that the emerging field of neuroscience has yet to adequately explain. As ever, I remain open to further evidence.

(February 6, 2014 at 4:57 pm)EvolutionKills Wrote:

(February 6, 2014 at 4:36 pm)dscross Wrote: Great quote from Sam Harris...

"There is clearly a sacred dimension to our existence, and coming to terms with it could well be the highest purpose of human life...[I]t must be possible to bring reason, spirituality, and ethics together in our thinking about the world. This would be the beginning of a rational approach to our deepest personal concerns. It would also be the end of faith."

Who agrees or disagrees with this statement and why?

I think that Harris is being perhaps a bit liberal with the word 'spiritual', but after having seen him speak and debate, I'm quite confident that he's using that term far differently than Deepak Chopra would in this context. There may very well be a level on consciousness or awareness that few if any can, have, or will be able to obtain. These events might be tied to the seemingly universal experiences that appear to cross both borders and faiths across the world and throughout time. However as a neuroscientist I'm pretty sure that Harris would agree that there is no reason to posit that this is at all a supernatural phenomena, merely just an aspect of consciousness that the emerging field of neuroscience has yet to adequately explain. As ever, I remain open to further evidence.

Agreed.

The use of the words sacred and spirituality can cause confusion in this context I think. I'm never sure how useful they are as words because they are associated so strongly with religion.

I think what Harris is trying to get at is that living literally in the moment and not being a slave to your thoughts is the key to being happy - and that it's something most people don't even consider. There's a really interesting vid on this on Youtube on which he is speaking about Death and The Present Moment.

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(February 6, 2014 at 4:56 pm)FreeTony Wrote: What is Spirituality?

Difficult one...

Words are very ambiguous when communicating complex ideas and none illustrate this fact more than the word spirituality. Even experts in philosophy and theology lack consensus on the meaning of spirituality. However, they DO agree on what it isn’t.

It’s not the same as religion, or even as religious belief. You can reject all forms of religion and still be deeply spiritual. Religious believers are also not necessarily spiritual. While a consensus is still not reached, some of the more popular definitions include vitality, connectedness, transcendence, and meaningfulness.

One of the most commonly described experiences of spirituality involves a sense of one’s interconnectedness to others and a dissolving of self-other boundaries.

Good enough explanation?

Spirituality in this context seems to be placing the mind above the environment, and the will above animal instinct. I'm for it.

(February 6, 2014 at 4:53 pm)whateverist Wrote: Yeah, I have no trouble appropriating the word "sacred" from religion but I have no use for "spirituality". Of course it is descriptive of certain behaviors.

In general I see "spirituality" as the pursuit of something beyond our animal nature. It is a desire to regard life from a "Martian perspective" and to rise above the mundane. To my mind spirituality is essentially escapist toward matters of the heart and flesh.

It's a method to reduce suffering, and overcome physical hinderances or pain, and stay calm in the face of danger.

I survived a severe car accident last year, granulated my wrist, and have a nice 5" scar to prove it. The accident wasn't my fault, and I was forced off the road and left to die.

Long story short, I no longer fear death the way I once did, and the "Martian Perspective" really helped in the week trussed before surgery on my wrist (moving it was not a good feeling), when the pins and stitches were pulled, and in therapy after.

It's good to be able to place your self outside the animal, sometimes.

I think I could get on board with a very liberal definition of the word spirituality.

I would call the heightened feeling of awe I get when I look at the stars, or the connectedness I feel when I'm with a woman, or the thrill I get when I fly a plane in some sense spirituality. It's all a chemical process in my brain that makes me feel euphoric or part of something or excited.

I guess it's all in how you define the word. I don't necessarily feel like my atheism is challenged by the connotation of a word like spirituality.