(February 21, 2014 at 9:57 am)ElleBelle Wrote: Good points. I guess I should amend that statement and have to say it affects my personal state of happiness. I value my internet and shopping habit.

Hey, like I said, don't get me wrong, there's plenty of benefits to living in the first world and for sure there's things in the first world that can make people happy (I guess my main point is that there's also a lot of new things that can make people unhappy as well).

I was also just talking generally, not necessarily aiming it at anyone. In fact I think it was Rahul who first made the point that he is living in such an awesome age where we can have beers in the freezer and search the internet.

(February 21, 2014 at 10:15 am)Napoléon Wrote: Hey, like I said, don't get me wrong, there's plenty of benefits to living in the first world and for sure there's things in the first world that can make people happy (I guess my main point is that there's also a lot of new things that can make people unhappy as well).

It's about how you frame your mind, and whether or not you suffer from depression or other problems.

You can live in a first world country and have access to many free things and STILL be unhappy because you have other troubles. For instance: someone who is poor and having financial problems because we haven't finished getting this 'socialized' healthcare up and running, and struggling to feed their kids and pay for their beat up car that also needs repairs, etc might still have access to the internet at cafe's and stuff, if it didn't come with the TV bundle they may or may not have.

(February 21, 2014 at 9:48 am)Napoléon Wrote: I don't really think this 'living in the first world' has that much bearing on whether someone is happy or not.

I think it's because we adapt so easily, especially to comfort. Hence the term "first world problems" where we become anxious over the truly minor side effects of having it really good. I grew up in a slum, then a project, and so my current co-op seems like a huge step up, and the suburbs that I'll be moving to in a year or so seem like paradise. But to someone raised in affluence, all of it is too miserable to even look at.

Of course, there is also a mental or psychological aspect to it. I've always been a happy-go-lucky person, the type who somehow manages to find the silver lining in almost any cloud. So even when I'm dealing with lots of stress like I am lately, I still think of myself as quite fortunate and very happy. I can't take credit for it, as it's no doubt a result of whatever forces have shaped me, but I tend to minimize the bad and maximize the good mentally. I'm probably happier than I have any reason to be, but that's not a bad problem to have (omg, did it again).

I'm pretty damn happy, I have a steady job, ambition and dreams, closing in on my associates degree, a girl that not only loves me but is my best friend. Around 5 years ago I did go through a rough patch, big thing that turned it around for me was I started taking steps to live the life I wanted to live. Everyone's problems are different, and harder then others, I consider any problems I had to be no big deal compared to what some people have to go through.

I tend to be easily contented. I was depressed about 13 years ago, but it took a combination of open heart surgery, breaking off an engagement, and my ex-fiancee taking most of my friends with her on the way out to get me there. I saw a therapist for a few months and have been my usual cheerful self since.

I'm currently having some difficulties (crashed my car in last week's ice storm, for one, but I'm completely unhurt) but they aren't phasing me much. I don't have an SO, but I've got good friends, the affection of other people's children and pets, and I don't want for anything I really need. There are hundreds of millions of people who would envy my life, and I keep that in mind when things get rough.

Perhaps this "I live in the first world therefore I shouldn't be unhappy" is a side effect of the idea that prosperity leads to happiness. There are plenty of psychological results that show this isn't true.

(February 21, 2014 at 12:44 pm)rasetsu Wrote:

Perhaps this "I live in the first world therefore I shouldn't be unhappy" is a side effect of the idea that prosperity leads to happiness. There are plenty of psychological results that show this isn't true.

Hedonic treadmill. After a year or so, pretty much no matter what happens, you go back to your normal equilibrium. My therapy money was probably wasted.

And you are certainly correct about prosperity. I know refugee children who fondly remember the camps. I grew up poor myself (including months without electricity or running water on a farm and 'camping out for the summer') and didn't much mind it. Poverty is more disturbing for parents than children, I think.

(February 21, 2014 at 1:01 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: Poverty is more disturbing for parents than children, I think.

Poverty is not having food to feed your kids.
That is a daunting perspective I hope I never have to face.

(February 21, 2014 at 9:48 am)Napoléon Wrote: Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I'd rather be living in the third world, just saying sometimes having all these things we consider as luxuries doesn't necessarily equate to happiness. If anything it could be argued living in the first world is a lot more complicated and demanding in other ways which can lead to people being unhappy in a different kind of way. I'm pretty sure I saw a documentary a while ago saying that people in the bronze age were probably just as happy as we are now, despite the fact we have so much that is technologically advanced. The thing is, people simply get used to their surroundings and the technologies and it becomes ingrained into their day to day life, so much so that it's taken for granted. I think that's true for most people in the first world to be honest. But it doesn't, IMO have all that much bearing on their happiness.

Well said, and I fully agree with that.

I've also read that some of the more developed countries tend to have higher rates of suicide and depression than many of the poorer countries:

http://healthland.time.com/2011/04/25/wh...ide-rates/

http://www.health.com/health/gallery/0,,..._9,00.html

However, it's good to feel happy and thankful for having a good job, great health insurance, freezer full of beef, internet, cable, technology and all those other 'extra' stuff like Rahul said earlier ... I mean, these things are not necessarily bad things to have ... but many people unlike him may take these things for granted and I think that's one of the causes for people not being happy enough (i.e. because they are not mindful of all such modern conveniences that they already have).


As for me, I'm happy overall.

I don't have a great job, I'm not rich, I don't have a car, I don't have many friends, etc., but I'm still happy somehow and try to make the best of whatever that I do have.

I am a utilitarian at heart and thus making others and oneself happy is the 'god' I hold dear.

Happiness is the presence of pleasure or the absence of pain...it is therefore a tepid point to consider that happiness is all prevailing for me.

Currently, my life is full of such contentment that it far outweighs even the most concerning pains that currently reside there. However, such is life, there may be occasions when the pains that do exist within my life are potentially greater than the pleasures...

That is, intrinsically, the manifestation of life for most people - of course.