(March 17, 2014 at 5:57 pm)FreeTony Wrote: If you can point out something I believe purely on faith, I will re-evaluate it.

You trust in the reliability of your cognitive faculties do you not?

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(March 17, 2014 at 6:02 pm)futilethewinds Wrote: Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeee... no. Sorry to say, I don't have faith. I don't need it. I have logic, science, evidence, facts, etc. instead.

how do you know logic and science are reliable in their respective uses?

(March 17, 2014 at 5:52 pm)discipulus Wrote: Pull up a chair and have a seat. In this thread I invite atheists and agnostics to discuss the topic of faith.

What is faith?

We all know that faith is an important aspect of Christianity. But what about atheism? Does an atheist exercise faith?

If so, how?

In what way?

I maintain that many atheists do indeed exercise faith despite what they may say about it.

So let us begin the discussion.

Did you get your Bible from the Catholic Church? The founding Fathers of Protestantism did. The Catholic Church decided your New Testament Canon. IF you don't trust the Catholic Church why do you trust your Bible? Maybe the Church fucked with it all those years before the invention of the First Protestant Church in the 16th Century!

The printing press was invented 65 years before Luther's revolt; and according to Hallam, a Protestant historian, the Catholic Bible was the first hook ever printed. In 1877 there were exhibited hundreds of old Bibles, at South Kensington, England; it was called the “Caxton Exhibition," and among them were nine German editions of the Bible, printed in Germany before Luther was born; and there were more than one hundred editions of the Latin Bible, the very thing Luther is pretended to have "discovered."

This disproves the popular lie about Luther finding the Bible at Erfurt in 1507. Many Protestant historians have repudiated this charge. To name a few: Dr. McGilfert in MAN LUTHER AND HIS WORK, page 273, says: "If Luther was ignorant of the Bible, it was his own fault.

The notion that Bible reading was frowned upon by ecclesiastical authorities of that age is quite unfounded." And Dr. Preserve Smith in LIFE AND LETTERS OF MARTIN LUTHER, page 14, writes: "The book was a very common one, there having been no less than one hundred editions of the Latin Vulgate published before 1500, as well as a number of German translations." And Murzel in HISTORY OF GERMANY, Vol.11, p.223, says: "Before the time of Luther, the Bible had already been translated and printed in both High and Low Dutch."

(March 17, 2014 at 6:10 pm)discipulus Wrote: how do you know logic and science are reliable in their respective uses?

Because they are designed to uncover truth in a way that is consistent and makes sense, rather than faith-based explanations for the universe and existence.

Protestantism at its start was just an attempt to reform the catholic church because of its flagrent corruption Martin luther did not intend to create a new church at the outset. It became new religions eventually.

(March 17, 2014 at 6:18 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: Protestantism at its start was just an attempt to reform the catholic church because of its flagrent corruption Martin luther did not intend to create a new church at the outset. It became new religions eventually.

THe Bible says so much weird shit I think Solascriptura is the most dangerous Doctrine that Christianity ever embraced. It was an impossible Doctrine before the invention of the printing press.

Jesus never told anyone to read a Bible. Jesus never left Christians with a Bible. So we know how important he thought the Bible was. Christ ascending into Heaven without leaving anyone such a book that is....

Doesn't he even say that the law will not change? I'd think he'd just rely on the torah rather than writing a new book.

(March 17, 2014 at 6:18 pm)futilethewinds Wrote:

(March 17, 2014 at 6:10 pm)discipulus Wrote: how do you know logic and science are reliable in their respective uses?

Because they are designed to uncover truth in a way that is consistent and makes sense, rather than faith-based explanations for the universe and existence.

Ok.

First, logic is not "designed" at all. Logic is based on certain axiomatic propositions that are taken for granted as being true without corroboration.

Second, I did not ask you what they were designed for, but rather, how do you know they are a reliable means of acquiring knowledge.

Quote:“Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.” ― Martin Luther

This is the main reason why I can't stand religious assholes.

(March 17, 2014 at 6:25 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:“Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.” ― Martin Luther

This is the main reason why I can't stand religious assholes.

Yeah, he may have empowered the people by translating that stuff (and unwittingly define the german standard languagr), but other than that he is such an arsehole across the board it's not even funny.

IMHO faith is roughly equivalent to trust. People express their trust in people, things, and ideas. I trust my wife, I trust bridges (most of the time), and I trust some ideas enough to live my life in accordance with them. In the realm of ideas I trust the belief that honesty is the best policy. I trust that my senses do not overtly decisive me. I take it on faith that other people have minds. I have faith that reality exists apart from individual minds. And I trust that God exists and living a good life involves loving what is good and true.

Few things are certain. Most everything else requires some degree of faith. Can anyone be certain that God does not exist? No. But you trust your reasoning and have faith in its conclusions. I'm not certain that God exists but I consider it highly likely based on my reflections on life and I try to live accordingly.