(April 12, 2010 at 2:51 pm)Saerules Wrote: And why could God not always have existed?

Which God?

(April 12, 2010 at 1:31 pm)Loki_999 Wrote: @Darwinian - one of the problems i find is one of the same problems Dawkins pointed out with God. If there is a God, what was before God, or who created God.... if God existed forever (as the theists believe) then what was he doing for all those eternities before creating the universe?

Funny thing is I had a similar discussion with a Christian from college who tried to argue for the existence of an all-powerful all-knowing deity by using the law of conservation of mass and energy. When it all boiled down to the premise of his argument he said this perfect deity desired the universe to come into existence, therefore it did.

I asked him what was the reason behind an intelligent deity creating the universe because if said being is perfect and is alpha and omega, then why create the universe? Was it bored? Is this creator-being not content in its own self-contained perfection?

Needless to say he couldn't conjure up a convincing answer.

(April 12, 2010 at 8:10 am)Wael El-Manzalawy Wrote: Matter may change from one form to another form, but matter doesn't come from nothing. Atheists say that there was a kind of original matter at the beginning of the universe. I will ask atheists some questions:

1- Can you create matter from nothing? Go to the laboratory and prove it. All you can do is to change matter from one form to another.

2- What is the origin of this original matter?
You -atheists- will say that this original matter just existed and you will say your common comment: " Why do you believe that the God just existed and you don't believe that this original matter just existed?"
My answer is simple and clear:
Matter can't come from nothing. So this original matter can't come from nothing because this is against all the rules of matter. But the God is supernatural. So, we can't apply the rules of matter to the God. So, if we say that the original matter just existed, it is against the rules of matter because matter can't come from nothing. But if we say that the God just exists, we are not in clash with the rules of matter because the God is metaphysical.

Here's the problem with your line of reasoning.
The theist like you says "How do you explain X?", and decides the answer is "Goddidit!," or, in your case "Allahu Akbar!"
However, the atheist looks at the problem and answers it a different way: "I don't know, let's find out."

Isn't virtual particles matter being created from nothing?

(April 12, 2010 at 6:59 pm)LEDO Wrote: Isn't virtual particles matter being created from nothing?

They aren't real - they are merely an approximation to represent what is occurring there. A place holder, if you will.

(April 12, 2010 at 2:55 pm)tavarish Wrote:

(April 12, 2010 at 2:51 pm)Saerules Wrote: And why could God not always have existed?

Which God?

Does it matter?

Really guys, you don't need to respond to this guy's thread.

I'll explain how this guy works:
- First he writes an article that he likes.
- Then he copy/paste it on a lot of websites and forums. He has accounts on a whole bunch of sites (myspace and the like)
- He is not here to debate, he stays at best 3 hours straight on one day posting one thread of his written shit. Sometimes he comes back the next day with another shit delivery for which he will not respond any answers and he'll be gone.
-then he waits 3 months to write a new shiny article, or he just choose one of his older article, and comes back with the same tactic.
- then he waits 3 months.....etc

That's why I'm pretty sure the guy will either post a new thread today (between 1pm and 10pm) or we'll see him again somewhere in the middle of july if my theory is correct. And it's very likely that his next new thread will be one of these articles here .


And speaking of his myspace account: he is marked as married, but he has a huge fetish on young british girls it seems , and I really don't know what his wife would think of his list of friends on myspace. Just take a look it's hilarious when you know the guy wants to appear on our forum as a righteous muslim lol : akward list of myspace friends

You're right.. Take a look at this..

http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/s...hp?t=22804

(April 12, 2010 at 11:11 pm)Darwinian Wrote: You're right.. Take a look at this..

http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/s...hp?t=22804

Exactly, he posted the same thing there an hour before posting it here!

Good enough for me. *banned*