How do you explain the start of the big bang? there has to be and unCaused first cause. The beginning of the big bang in a split second threw in the existence of time,laws,matter,physics, everything are universe lives with today. If the sun was to far away from the earth we would freeze to death, If we were to close the sun we would burn up.If the oxygen level wasn't perfect we would either suffocate or have fires everywhere. DNA is extremely complex everything is designed on a razors edge, life demands for a brilliant designer its the only logical way. And in the explosion of the big bang it wasn't just random chaos everything was guided into place, what did you guys think everything just happen to be perfect?? I don't have near enough faith to be an Atheist.

Or a dictionary, apparently.

Quote:a·the·ism
ˈāTHēˌizəm/
noun
1.
disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.
synonyms: nonbelief, disbelief, unbelief, irreligion, skepticism, doubt, agnosticism

The expression of disbelief of a current scientific model has no bearing on whether or not that model is accurate, or make the false dichotomy "if the Big Bang wrong, then God," when there is substantial evidence for Big Bang theory, and no evidence for God. There is substantial evidence for evolution, and for abiogenesis as the possible beginnings of life.

No such evidence exists for God. It makes zero logical sense to say "I reject all current scientific theories that are well-supported by evidence because I do not accept them, but do accept this answer with no evidence behind it," as the explanations "Shiva did it," "Aliens did it," or a self-aware Cosmic Teapot did it" are equally supported by the evidence as:

"I reject Science; therefore a sky wizard who is uncaused used magic to cause the Big Bang, magic to create life, and magic to cause life to appear in its current form"

Quote:How do you explain the start of the big bang?

I don't know. Science is working on it. *


*-This in no way means that there is any credence to your invisible sky-daddy nonsense.

(April 4, 2014 at 12:20 pm)super spidey man Wrote: How do you explain the start of the big bang? there has to be and unCaused first cause.

Why bother with the rest of it if you were going to answer your own question in the very next breath?

These first cause arguments are getting old. Really old. A few thousand years old, and yet nobody who presents them bothers to check out all the historical objections to them.

(April 4, 2014 at 12:20 pm)super spidey man Wrote: How do you explain the start of the big bang? there has to be and unCaused first cause. The beginning of the big bang in a split second threw in the existence of time,laws,matter,physics, everything are universe lives with today. If the sun was to far away from the earth we would freeze to death, If we were to close the sun we would burn up.If the oxygen level wasn't perfect we would either suffocate or have fires everywhere. DNA is extremely complex everything is designed on a razors edge, life demands for a brilliant designer its the only logical way. And in the explosion of the big bang it wasn't just random chaos everything was guided into place, what did you guys think everything just happen to be perfect?? I don't have near enough faith to be an Atheist.

It's very hard for us to know the exact beginning of the big bang, because the things we use to find out about this stuff weren't the same before the big bang happened. For now we just say we don't know, or because a common belief is that energy can't be destroyed, we could say it may be eternal. I have heard that matter and energy really do disappear and reappear once in a while. So is it eternal? Maybe. We don't know yet, but I'd rather say space is eternal than god is eternal, because at least we have evidence for space.

Yes, if the earth was too close or two far away from the sun, we wouldn't have life. That's why the universe, for all of its expanse, is not teeming with life. Still, just because something has a low chance of happening, doesn't mean it can't happen. It happened here. It may not have happened in the next solar system over. It may have happened somewhere else in the universe. It doesn't need design. It just needs the slim chance of happening. Obviously that slim chance is there.

DNA is very complex. Humans are very complex. These things didn't just poof into existence the way they are, though. Nor did some mysterious creature speak them into existence. At least as far as we know.

Finally, even if we went as far as saying the universe needed a divine creator, we're still a long way from deism to christianity.

Who cares if we can explain it or not? Argument from ignorance does give god any favors.

(April 4, 2014 at 12:20 pm)super spidey man Wrote: How do you explain the start of the big bang?

Currently, a very compelling explanation is a quantum fluctuation of a scalar field (the inflaton) to a higher energy state, triggering a rapid expansion of a patch of space and
subsequent heating via decay of the scalar field. This is all a bit speculative, but it's hard to make definitive statements about this cosmological phase.

Quote:
there has to be and unCaused first cause.

1. Concerning causality, see e.g. this thread:
http://atheistforums.org/thread-25207.html
Causation and the arrow of time are artifacts of entropy production which are not necessarily applicable to to the question why there is a universe
2. Quantum processes within our universe do not obviously have causes and occur randomly, so your analogy breaks down even within our universe at the microscopic level
3. Even if your assertion were correct, the universe itself would be the most obvious candidate for an uncaused first cause

Quote:The beginning of the big bang in a split second threw in the existence of time,laws,matter,physics, everything are universe lives with today.

To the extent that that is even a sentence, it looks like that's what happened...

Quote:If the sun was to far away from the earth we would freeze to death, If we were to close the sun we would burn up.

You do know how many solar systems there are in the observable universe, right? It's not like this is the only one...

Quote:If the oxygen level wasn't perfect we would either suffocate or have fires everywhere.

The oxygen level has varied very strongly in the past, you know? There was a time when there was barely any oxygen at all, it's only after blue algae started producing it (it was considered a poison back then by most living things), that life started to adapt to it - via evolution, just as ecoli adapt to citric acid in Lenski's lab. Our current oxygen level is not magically set to its value, but a temporary equilibrium which is the result of a feedback loop involving all living things, chemistry, the atmosphere etc.

Quote:DNA is extremely complex

It's pretty complex today... that doesn't meant that it started out like that. Unlike what the ID liars tell you, complexity can arise via evolution by natural selection.

Quote: everything is designed on a razors edge,

And now you're starting to make stuff up

Quote: life demands for a brilliant designer its the only logical way.

More bare assertions...

Quote:And in the explosion of the big bang it wasn't just random chaos everything was guided into place,

It was pretty random, and things weren't guided into place by an intelligence, it's just that in our universe the laws of physics are such that structure can form under gravity. In universes where this is not the case, or better, regions of the universe where this is not the case, there are no observers.

Quote:what did you guys think everything just happen to be perfect?? I don't have near enough faith to be an Atheist.

Everything is far from perfect. Everything is such that it barely supports life, and in most places it doesn't. This is not what a designed universe looks like, this is what an undesigned universe looks like - just barely suitable.

Queston? Is that the subatomic particle from which questions are formed?

(April 4, 2014 at 12:42 pm)rasetsu Wrote: Queston? Is that the subatomic particle from which questions are formed?

Yes, it's the quantum equivalent of a question, therefore subject to the Heisenberg uncertainty principle: as soon as you give the answer, the question suddenly shifts. You can never know both. Some call it goalpost moving