(April 5, 2014 at 4:48 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: There is some versions I made that adds to the issue of the argument of evil, I don't know if the philosophical intellectual world is all too aware of them.

One of them goes along the lines of:

Suffering is either good or evil for humanity.
If we should want to stop it, then it is evil.
We should want to stop it.
Therefore it's evil for humanity.

Another:

Suffering is either good or evil for humanity.
If it is good for humanity, we should not want to stop it.
We should want to stop it.
Therefore it's not good for humanity.

Also:

If God doesn't want to stop suffering, so shouldn't we.
We should want to stop suffering for humanity.
Therefore God should want to stop suffering for humanity.

You put my thoughts into words. So why do you believe in such a god?

(April 5, 2014 at 4:33 pm)tor Wrote:

(April 5, 2014 at 4:27 pm)Jacob(smooth) Wrote: But the contradiction is only between the atheist view of God and the world as is. There is no contradiction between the theist view of God and the world as is. Your statement above would, suggest, be more accurate as

It calls into question the way the world is compared to how We think it should be if a perfect being exists.

That introduces two potential weak links, our view of what a perfect world would be and God. A theist will pretty much always decide that our view of the perfect world which is wrong rather than God.

It's a fantastic argument to reinforce an atheists beliefs but damn all use to challenge a Christian's. Which is what it's for isn't it?

I don't think even christians think the world is perfect.
Children wouldn't die from hunger in a perfect world.

Are you serious or are you pulling my chain?

(April 5, 2014 at 4:50 pm)tor Wrote:

(April 5, 2014 at 4:48 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: There is some versions I made that adds to the issue of the argument of evil, I don't know if the philosophical intellectual world is all too aware of them.

One of them goes along the lines of:

Suffering is either good or evil for humanity.
If we should want to stop it, then it is evil.
We should want to stop it.
Therefore it's evil for humanity.

Another:

Suffering is either good or evil for humanity.
If it is good for humanity, we should not want to stop it.
We should want to stop it.
Therefore it's not good for humanity.

Also:

If God doesn't want to stop suffering, so shouldn't we.
We should want to stop suffering for humanity.
Therefore God should want to stop suffering for humanity.

You put my thoughts into words. So why do you believe in such a god?

If it was just an intellectual question then I probably would not believe. I believe for spiritual mystic reasons.

(April 5, 2014 at 5:26 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:

(April 5, 2014 at 4:50 pm)tor Wrote: You put my thoughts into words. So why do you believe in such a god?

If it was just an intellectual question then I probably would not believe. I believe for spiritual mystic reasons.

Do you like god?

(April 5, 2014 at 4:25 pm)alpha male Wrote: It calls into question the way the world is compared to the way it should be if the vision of a perfect being assumed by some imperfect beings exists.

...You do realize that these imperfect beings are the ones who define what this perfect being is like, right? You're making a distinction without a difference.

(April 5, 2014 at 5:44 pm)tor Wrote:

(April 5, 2014 at 5:26 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: If it was just an intellectual question then I probably would not believe. I believe for spiritual mystic reasons.

Do you like god?

Yes.

(April 5, 2014 at 4:27 pm)Jacob(smooth) Wrote: But the contradiction is only between the atheist view of God and the world as is. There is no contradiction between the theist view of God and the world as is. Your statement above would, suggest, be more accurate as

It calls into question the way the world is compared to how We think it should be if a perfect being exists.

That introduces two potential weak links, our view of what a perfect world would be and God. A theist will pretty much always decide that our view of the perfect world which is wrong rather than God.

Er, no. That is almost comically silly. The formulation of the very concept of God and related religious doctrines is done by theists. Demonstrating contradictions between those and the world has nothing to do with it merely being from the atheists' viewpoint. Why do you think that religious apologists even admit that the Problem of Evil is probably the strongest atheistic argument? Because even they recognize its potency from even their own perspective.

Quote:It's a fantastic argument to reinforce an atheists beliefs but damn all use to challenge a Christian's. Which is what it's for isn't it?

Are you saying that the Problem of Evil has never shaken a theist's faith? As someone who was such a theist really affected by this argument, I find that self-evidently absurd. Worse, the recognition of the potency of this argument is evident even within the Bible in both Psalms and the Book of Job.

(April 5, 2014 at 5:47 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:

(April 5, 2014 at 5:44 pm)tor Wrote: Do you like god?

Yes.

Why?

(April 5, 2014 at 6:12 pm)tor Wrote:

(April 5, 2014 at 5:47 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Yes.

Why?

Because God is awesome.

(April 5, 2014 at 6:15 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:

(April 5, 2014 at 6:12 pm)tor Wrote: Why?

Because God is awesome.

Why is he awesome?