About magic: I'd just like to say that I take back what I said about magic. If magic is real it probably was seen as satanic because back then lots of things were seen as "evil" or whatever. So that takes witches and zombies off of the table.

About vampires: I doubt anyone truly believes in a blood sucking vampire anymore. So I take that back as well.

About demons: Saerules, I was talking about the red horned guys. I doubt that people who believe in them are thinking about them as an "inspiring force". You knew what I meant.

About ghosts: I'm still wondering how an atheist can believe in a soul. It still doesn't add up. If souls aren't things that go up to heaven or down to hell, what are they actually?

I posed a question a week ago or so to this community. I asked if anyone here believed in anything 'supernatural' and/or 'paranormal' (like psychic energy, etc). Not one person, including the resident theists, said yes. So, if you know any atheists that believe in the existence of the 'soul', they probably aren't hanging around here.

I have had plenty of conversations about such things with both religious folks and non-religious folks and, in my experience, no one ever got angry about the topic. Not even those who believe the pseudo-scientific research that has been done to isolate psychic powers. Pointing out how unscientific those studies are didn't even make them angry. It changed their position at times, but never inspired anger. So... I'm not sure where you're coming from.

Cyborger Wrote:If souls aren't things that go up to heaven or down to hell, what are they actually?

The 'soul' is one's sense of self-awareness, one's consciousness, mind, thoughts, emotions, etc. When one contemplates that awareness it can 'feel' as if it exists 'outside' of the body. It doesn't. It is generated by chemical and physiological processes in the brain. Once the brain dies... it ceases to generate this 'soul' and... that's that.

I don't believe in ghosts, vampires, witches, or demons.
I believe in Zombies though.
Lots and lots of zombies.

(April 21, 2010 at 11:52 am)EggSpurt Wrote: I don't believe in ghosts, vampires, witches, or demons.
I believe in Zombies though.
Lots and lots of zombies.

My children spend a lot of time preparing for the inevitable zombie apocolypse by playing instructional resident evil games.

Resi 4 rules.

(April 21, 2010 at 8:12 am)Cyborger Wrote: About magic: I'd just like to say that I take back what I said about magic. If magic is real it probably was seen as satanic because back then lots of things were seen as "evil" or whatever. So that takes witches and zombies off of the table.

Not necessarily. Moses was a mage

Quote:About vampires: I doubt anyone truly believes in a blood sucking vampire anymore. So I take that back as well.

You'd be surprised... yes, people really do believe in them.

Quote:About demons: Saerules, I was talking about the red horned guys. I doubt that people who believe in them are thinking about them as an "inspiring force". You knew what I meant.

And some people (who believe in demons) regard demons as good (and sometimes misunderstood) spirits.

Quote:About ghosts: I'm still wondering how an atheist can believe in a soul. It still doesn't add up. If souls aren't things that go up to heaven or down to hell, what are they actually?

An atheist by definition does not believe in gods. There are plenty of other forces and paranormal things a person might believe in that is not a god

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(April 21, 2010 at 1:14 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote:

(April 21, 2010 at 11:52 am)EggSpurt Wrote: I don't believe in ghosts, vampires, witches, or demons.
I believe in Zombies though.
Lots and lots of zombies.

My children spend a lot of time preparing for the inevitable zombie apocolypse by playing instructional resident evil games.

Resi 4 rules.

Go with typing of the dead (i think?). No better weapon than a keyboard for killing zombies

When you look into vampires throughout history, which is really fascinating, btw, you see the bizarre means they used to identify vampires, bloated bodies, recedng cuticles on the fingernails, red ooze coming from the mouth, you begin to realize that in a time before embalming this is what typically happened to bodies as they began to decay. So it's an easy deduction that people were merely making assumptions about a natural process they didn't understand, like they did with the concept of god in general. Now was there a time when people returned from the dead to drink blood/essence/energy from the living, probably not, however is it possible that certain societies already deeply superstitious took coincidences and natural phenomenon and created something supernatural from it...like with god...zing again...definately.

Zombies...see above

Magic...see above

Demons...see above

Witches are an interesting subject. Practictioners of several of the world's longest lasting religions, and held to blame for every foul deed and misfortune in simpler, more superstitious times, they have appeared in every civilization in one form or another. Are there witches, yes, are there covens, yes, are there ancient rituals and rites with deep ties to older covens and systems of worship since the beginning of time, yes, are they actually magicians, no. I think the historical witch is a lot like the historical ninja, except not as badass. Witches were practicing medicine long before anyone believed that anything other than prayer could fix anything. The problem with witches however is that most of the time, it was really hit or miss, as coven A in Ireland and coven B in South America never spoke or traded recipes/spells so a cure for hiccups in one place could be pine root, while the cure in another place could be crows foot. Again, superstition and horror stories turned them into Hansel and Gretel level powerful sorceresses who could turn men to toads and fly on sticks. A lot of innocent men and women died because of the fearmongering done by ignorant and superstitious people.

Ghosts...this is really a case of human romanticism. We would like to believe that a mirror, house, car, garage, church, library, or book could possibly mean so much to someone that even after death, they just couldn't give it up. It connects to anyone who has lost someone, the belief that no matter how much time passes, that person is still here, somewhere, and if you are open to it, if you believe just enough, you can communicate with them. Seriously. I'll admit that I watched ghost hunters when it first started, like maybe the first two seasons, because I was curious to see what if anything could be caught on camera. And what they caught moved me so much, I stopped watching. People mistake ambient noise, dustballs and moths as the spirits of long lost relatives, catch some shadow trickery on film and sell it as a haunted house. Meh. This is one of those things that I would absolutely have to see to believe, and even then, I would rack my brain trying to rationalize it, so I probably still wouldn't believe it. Spirits are a romantic and creepy way of saying that the people we lose never leave us.

I think that witches thru the centuries were your first atheists.

@Sleeping Demon

Quote:Witches are an interesting subject. Practictioners of several of the world's longest lasting religions, and held to blame for every foul deed and misfortune in simpler, more superstitious times, they have appeared in every civilization in one form or another. Are there witches, yes, are there covens, yes, are there ancient rituals and rites with deep ties to older covens and systems of worship since the beginning of time, yes, are they actually magicians, no. I think the historical witch is a lot like the historical ninja, except not as badass. Witches were practicing medicine long before anyone believed that anything other than prayer could fix anything. The problem with witches however is that most of the time, it was really hit or miss, as coven A in Ireland and coven B in South America never spoke or traded recipes/spells so a cure for hiccups in one place could be pine root, while the cure in another place could be crows foot. Again, superstition and horror stories turned them into Hansel and Gretel level powerful sorceresses who could turn men to toads and fly on sticks. A lot of innocent men and women died because of the fearmongering done by ignorant and superstitious people.

Agree whole heartedly. ^^^

The collective 'wisdom' of witch craft can be found in the foundations of medical science today. It is certainly still practised but today we call them GPs

Hey,

It's all about what the words mean. Symbology, semantics...

I beleive in the supernatural, in the sense that there are things as of yet outside of our full comprehension. Please don't God Of The Gaps that one, you will lose. It is only GOTG is we will never invent a better mousetrap. Bonus points if you understand that.

Magic, ghosts, vampires, the supernatural, either exist or don't based on definition.

Magic, a good one. Do you beleive in magic, do do do do doo. Of course magic exists, if you defoine it as something that does or can exist. But if you choose to define magic as something than can't exist, then it doesn't. Still on board? I may not be...

I think magic exists because I define the abstract term 'magic' as something that exists. Ergo, when anything is larger than the sum of it's parts, it is magic. If you can fool someone into accepting a non-reality, magic. That means cars and bluffing in poker count. There, can't be any more fallacious than saying bunnies don't REALLY come from hats, so there is no such thing as magic.

Vampires, not as much. Goth kids, yes. People that wish for whatever fucked up reason that they were vampires, sure. The type of person referred to as a 'psychic vampire', absolutely. Real, out of the book undead? No. But take a virus, it is neither dead nor alive and it's sole purpose is to survive (as a not alive thing) and by doing such it destroys us. Close...

Ghosts, this is starting to step on the toes of UFO's. If there is and have never been such a thing as a real ghost, we have an even bigger problem in how many people think they have seen one.

Or what about Crop Circles? That is a phenomenon 180 degrees from the rest. It is not evidence of the existence of crop circles we are lacking, in fact the only thing we know about them is that everyone can see them, and they appear to be real. Oh and that people like to claim they made them without being thoroughly convincing.

And some good points already made about real witchcraft. Witches of course exist, I was one for a few years. I dated one once. My Mum is a Druid. But you could also say that the things we dress up as on halo ween don't really exist, and get away with it. All semantics.

I guess most atheists have a little less room for superstition because of their skeptical nature. That isn't a slight though.

Thanks,
-Pip

It's a bird! It's a plane! It's PIPPY!

pippy Wrote:I beleive in the supernatural, in the sense that there are things as of yet outside of our full comprehension. Please don't God Of The Gaps that one, you will lose. It is only GOTG is we will never invent a better mousetrap. Bonus points if you understand that.

IZ GOTZ BONUZ POINTZOR!

Quote:Magic, ghosts, vampires, the supernatural, either exist or don't based on definition.

True ^_<

pippy Wrote:Of course magic exists, if you defoine it as something that does or can exist. But if you choose to define magic as something than can't exist, then it doesn't.

This is true. But you may not be correct about what can and cannot exist

I don't think magic exists, but I sure wish it did. I could do the whole Cinderella thing... but with my body instead of glass slippers and a repaired dress!

Quote:The type of person referred to as a 'psychic vampire'

Believe it or not... I'm actually with you here...

I like your interpretation of a virus being a vampire ^_^ Now I'm thinking about writing a children's campfire story about The Vampire Virus! ^_<

Quote:Ghosts, this is starting to step on the toes of UFO's. If there is not and have never been such a thing as a real ghost, we have an even bigger problem in how many people think they have seen one.

Pippy is telling it like it is : O Kudos! You forgot the word 'not', so I'm adding it in for you to be pedantic *_< Bolding mine.

Quote:Or what about Crop Circles? That is a phenomenon 180 degrees from the rest. It is not evidence of the existence of crop circles we are lacking, in fact the only thing we know about them is that everyone can see them, and they appear to be real. Oh and that people like to claim they made them without being thoroughly convincing.

Here's where we differ. While some people may see a giant space penis and a giant 'carved' into a hill... I just see some cut grass You'd have to give me some hefty evidence otherwise

Quote:And some good points already made about real witchcraft. Witches of course exist, I was one for a few years. I dated one once. My Mum is a Druid. But you could also say that the things we dress up as on halo ween don't really exist, and get away with it. All semantics.

Sure they exist... but what do they exist as? True involkers of magik... or your average "magician" or "illusionist"... or as some random wacko stirring the seaweed out of their nets with an oar and glancing evilly at passers by?

Semantics are important! "_"

Quote:I guess most atheists have a little less room for superstition because of their skeptical nature. That isn't a slight though.

Nay indeed. It's rather nice, if i do say so But then... being an atheist really doesn't mean that we are necessarily skeptics... just take a look-see at the insane scientologists ^_^

"Here's where we differ. While some people may see a giant space penis and a giant 'carved' into a hill... I just see some cut grass Tongue You'd have to give me some hefty evidence otherwise"

Hefty evidence that there is a phenomenon? I certainly don't claim that Aliens or interdimensional physics make them, and certainly crop circles happen. I try not to think about the artist, and consider it a gift of art. In circles. In grass.

http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2009/...l2009.html