What really caused me to question the existance of "spirits" is the effects of brain damage has on people. I should know. I had a relative who had heavy brain damage (I say had because she sadly died 5 years ago due to a serious illness). Now she wasn't born with brain damage but had a nasty accident. Her heart stopped and it was a long while before she was finaly revived. Because her heart was not beating and bumping blood into the brain, the brain started to take serious damage due to decay. She had virtually no understanding of any kind. No selfawareness. She couldn't walk let alone stand. She spent years of her life on her bed while being looked after. Her body became extremely weak and became very vulnerable to even the most common illnesses (hence her death).

Now if you are seperate from that guey biomass called the brain then how comes much of you is easily destroyed when the brain takes damage? How comes you lose your memory, selfawareness, understanding, ect ect? I thought the spirit was seperate from the brain? The brain taking damage shouldn't effect the spirit. Shouldn't it? Whatever theists think, I'm quite sure that when the brain fucks up, so do you. When the brain dies, so do you. The moment the brain stops functioning is the moment you do to.

I know theists are going to make some lame bullshit excuse for this one. As usual.

Depends what you think the spirit is I guess. It certainly seems to be linked to thought. From what you said there, I sorta imagine a separate 'you' that's frustrated in cognition. The brain is part of the physical body sure, and the physical body dies.

It is a good point. We wonder that as well.

You have to hope for her sake that there is no spirit.

Because otherwise it spent years trapped in her broken body.

It would have been much kinder to let her die than to endure that.

(April 23, 2010 at 10:39 pm)Zen Badger Wrote: You have to hope for her sake that there is no spirit.

Because otherwise it spent years trapped in her broken body.

It would have been much kinder to let her die than to endure that.

^^^

What he said!

It amazes me how religion has concocted this "spirit" crap that must "be saved", how kind this bloody god-boy is and the sets out to torture said spirit by keeping it not only trapped but using 'superglue' to keep it in this world.

Huh!!

I am sorry to hear of your loss. Nothing can replace the sadness you must have felt.

I think that there will just have to remain a little mystery in this world and what comes after DEATH is one of them.

(April 23, 2010 at 10:39 pm)Zen Badger Wrote: You have to hope for her sake that there is no spirit.

Because otherwise it spent years trapped in her broken body.

It would have been much kinder to let her die than to endure that.

She happens to be a little older than me and was in that state before I was born. Can you imagine yourself being in that state for over 20 years? Can't move, can't think, get sick easily and living with this permanent situation with no possibility of getting better. If I ever became like that, I really would like to die. It's sad she's dead but I think it's far better than when she was alive and suffering in that condition. She is buried with her granddad. I visit the grave occasionly.

Personaly, I think this whole spirit thing is nothing more than wishful thinking.

Do you know she suffered? Are you judging her experience from your own?

(April 24, 2010 at 4:31 am)Ace Wrote: Personaly, I think this whole spirit thing is nothing more than wishful thinking.

I think that covers considerations of the afterlife.

Quote:Do you know she suffered? Are you judging her experience from your own?

Well lets see, she was blind, she wore a nappy, she cried quite often, incapable of thought, no selfawareness, easily sick and spent years in a bed. I'd call that suffering.

Quote:I think that covers considerations of the afterlife.

I have considered this so-called afterlife but have ultamalty rejected the idea. There is nothing to support such a claim. It's highly unlikely.

(April 24, 2010 at 4:43 am)Ace Wrote:

Quote:Do you know she suffered? Are you judging her experience from your own?

Well lets see, she was blind, she wore a nappy, she cried quite often, incapable of thought, no selfawareness, easily sick and spent years in a bed. I'd call that suffering.

Right. She cried. This is new information, and that would indicate suffering.

(April 24, 2010 at 4:43 am)Ace Wrote:

Quote:I think that covers considerations of the afterlife.

I have considered this so-called afterlife but have ultamalty rejected the idea. There is nothing to support such a claim. It's highly unlikely.

Me too.

(April 24, 2010 at 4:37 am)fr0d0 Wrote: Do you know she suffered? Are you judging her experience from your own?

(April 24, 2010 at 4:31 am)Ace Wrote: Personaly, I think this whole spirit thing is nothing more than wishful thinking.

I think that covers considerations of the afterlife.

Frodo, I don't think anyone even implied that. The impression I got was that she was beyond human suffering, What I understood was people here are saying are saying it WOULD BE cruel if she had a spirit trapped in that body .

I'm aware of the body mind dichotomy about which people have argued for centuries. I disbelieve in a mind separate from the body or of one capable of surviving death. My position is that the mind is a process,not an object,it is the dynamic of the living brain,a product of the brain in action,just as motion is a product of the motor of a car. (clumsy analogy, but I don't claim to be a philosopher)

The reasons for my position: Skepticism: I demand proof,but so far have seen none.

Another basic question is "Which mind?". The mind changes a little moment to moment and radically year-to-year. What happens if a mind is damaged or the owner is nuts? Does it become prefect at death? Which version? Where and by what mechanism is the perfect version backed up? (to use a computer analogy) Does God have a special external hard drive for each person,or does he just miraculously make everything perfect? That brings me back to my demand for proof.