Spirit and then there is brain damage

[True Christian]

What really caused me to question the existance of "spirits" is the effects of brain damage has on people. I should know. I had a relative who had heavy brain damage (I say had because she sadly died 5 years ago due to a serious illness). Now she wasn't born with brain damage but had a nasty accident. Her heart stopped and it was a long while before she was finaly revived. Because her heart was not beating and bumping blood into the brain, the brain started to take serious damage due to decay. She had virtually no understanding of any kind. No selfawareness. She couldn't walk let alone stand. She spent years of her life on her bed while being looked after. Her body became extremely weak and became very vulnerable to even the most common illnesses (hence her death).

Now if you are seperate from that guey biomass called the brain then how comes much of you is easily destroyed when the brain takes damage? How comes you lose your memory, selfawareness, understanding, ect ect? I thought the spirit was seperate from the brain? The brain taking damage shouldn't effect the spirit. Shouldn't it? Whatever theists think, I'm quite sure that when the brain fucks up, so do you. When the brain dies, so do you. The moment the brain stops functioning is the moment you do to.

I know theists are going to make some lame bullshit excuse for this one. As usual.

Ill try on that bullshit excuse you speak about

The brain could be the link between the spirit and the body. When it is damaged your spirit cannot access you body.

[Edwardo Piet]

Rabbi Wolpe who recently debated Christopher Hitchens has said that this issue of brain damage and the like, is what made him doubt his faith more than anything ever has (this was when he was asked what, if anything, has ever made him doubt his faith).

I think I remember him saying that his mother had brain damage or something.

I've always thought of it to be a pretty good argument against the so-called 'spirit' or 'soul'. I wonder how theists riddle their way out of that one (as they inevitably will do in their annoyingly illogical ways of unreason).

EDIT : - just noticed - Oops, 'True Christian' has already done it.

Well yes, the brain COULD be the link between the spirit and the body. It could be that in the sense that you can't disprove it, in the sense that the Flying Spaghetti Monster COULD exist.

I see no fucking reason to believe it though. It 'could', so what? Probable? Methinks, not.

EvF

[Ace Otana]

Ill try on that bullshit excuse you speak about

The brain could be the link between the spirit and the body. When it is damaged your spirit cannot access you body.

A good excuse. However, it is a baseless assertion. No evidence to support it

Possible? Yes.
Probable? No.

[Violet]

Ill try on that bullshit excuse you speak about

The brain could be the link between the spirit and the body. When it is damaged your spirit cannot access you body.

A good excuse. However, it is a baseless assertion. No evidence to support it

Possible? Yes.
Probable? No.

Possible: no.

If it were really possible, it would be true.

/determinist.

[Edwardo Piet]

But you don't know the future missy.

Hence why we talk of possibility.

Talking like that is not just determinism, it's fatalism.

EvF

[Ace Otana]

Possible: no.

If it were really possible, it would be true.

/determinist.

I really likes you.

Back on topic, god is considered a "possibility". However, being possible isn't the same as being true. It's possible that the moon's centre is made entirely of gold. Though this is highly improbable. Same thing for god. Though possible, tis very improbable.
It's possible that there really is a santa claus. It's just very improbable.

[Violet]

But you don't know the future missy.

Hence why we talk of possibility.

Talking like that is not just determinism, it's fatalism.

EvF

Determinism implies fate.

Really, what is different? "fate |fāt|
noun
1 the development of events beyond a person's control, regarded as determined by a supernatural power "

"determinism |diˈtərməˌnizəm|
noun Philosophy
the doctrine that all events, including human action, are ultimately determined by causes external to the will. Some philosophers have taken determinism to imply that individual human beings have no free will and cannot be held morally responsible for their actions."

?

---

It may be possible (as recognized by existentialism) that there really is a santa claus. It's just very improbable.

Fixed

[Edwardo Piet]

The difference between fatalism and determinism is that determinism simply means there is one determined future, it doesn't mean that we know this future and therefore can't speak of possible futures (since we don't know WHAT is the actual determined future). Fatalism implies that it's futile to even consider possibilites, which is what you seemed to suggest.

Possibility still exists with determinism, in the sense we don't know the future so we talk of possibilities.

EvF

[Violet]

The difference between fatalism and determinism is that determinism simply means there is one determined future,

Which is different from fate?

it doesn't mean that we know this future and therefore can't speak of possible futures (since we don't know WHAT is the actual determined future).

Fate doesn't presume to know what is in store for us, though it is often interpreted to allow for prophesy (Which determinism also allows for if it really is correct, though usually implies scientific prediction or the like rather than mysticism).

Fatalism implies that it's futile to even consider possibilites, which is what you seemed to suggest.

It is only futile to consider possibilities if you already know what's going to happen Even then, it can be fun to do so, and therefore not really futile in its fullest sense

Possibility still exists with determinism, in the sense we don't know the future so we talk of possibilities.

EvF

Possibility under the sense that it is difficult to know the future (though arguably less so the more sophisticated science we achieve) applies equally to both fate and determinism (really... they are synonyms so it is weird sounding to say it as if it is different).

[fr0d0]

Frodo, I don't think anyone even implied that. The impression I got was that she was beyond human suffering, What I understood was people here are saying are saying it WOULD BE cruel if she had a spirit trapped in that body .

I'm aware of the body mind dichotomy about which people have argued for centuries. I disbelieve in a mind separate from the body or of one capable of surviving death. My position is that the mind is a process,not an object,it is the dynamic of the living brain,a product of the brain in action,just as motion is a product of the motor of a car. (clumsy analogy, but I don't claim to be a philosopher)

The reasons for my position: Skepticism: I demand proof,but so far have seen none.

Another basic question is "Which mind?". The mind changes a little moment to moment and radically year-to-year. What happens if a mind is damaged or the owner is nuts? Does it become prefect at death? Which version? Where and by what mechanism is the perfect version backed up? (to use a computer analogy) Does God have a special external hard drive for each person,or does he just miraculously make everything perfect? That brings me back to my demand for proof.

Yeah I think the mind is part of the physical body. I don't think it's 'physical' like we understand simple physical objects to be... but rather... in the sense of a combination bio electric activity stored in the brain. To get from physical substance to thought jumps the physical fence IMO.

On to spirit... my understanding is then beyond thought but instinctual. Physicality has no influence on it, so brain damage is irrelevant. I just think it's a different subject.