(June 5, 2014 at 10:12 pm)Rampant.A.I. Wrote:

(June 5, 2014 at 9:58 pm)mickiel Wrote: I like you're use of " Mom", because the church was the parent of much of science. Science just got tired of " Church regulated science", and " Grew up", as you said, and rebelled; which we know in history as " The Scientific Revolution." Science, and I think Atheism as well, were once children of the church, or religion; children who have left their parents, and now simply hate them or would like to forget them.

But history is a wall that blocks forgetting.

Atheism actually predates the church by thousands of years, and probably since the dawn of humanity.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_atheism

The Scientific Revolution was more a spread of knowledge than a rebellion, allowing for scientific inquiry to advance into areas previously suppressed by the church.

Atheism does not predate Theism, because it came from it. Explain to me how there could be an Atheist, without there first being a Theist?

(June 5, 2014 at 9:45 pm)mickiel Wrote: And the church was its mother.

Partially yes, not universally by any stretch.

Quote:A fact many Atheist seem to be unaware of. Or would soon forget. You would be surprised to see how many scientist were believers in God that actually founded some serious science.

Again, not all of them. There were also scientists that came out of Islam and other religions. I'm not real sure what your point is. There are people who became doctors who were once part of a college fraternity. It doesn't mean the college fraternity gets credit for their medical license.

Quote:I am not a religious man or a Christian, but I am often amused at how some Atheist seem to use science as a type of weapon against religion, not knowing that science was once a bedfellow with religion.

I'm not real sure what your point is with this one either ...

Just because SOME science was started in the church doesn't mean that Atheists shouldn't reference the FACT that the church mostly inhibited the growth of science and basic knowledge throughout history. It's not an illegitimate point to make if you're a non-believer. Pointing out that the Christian Church made a great effort to retard, stifle, and even completely inhibit the growth of the human race is still very valid.

(June 5, 2014 at 10:18 pm)mickiel Wrote:

(June 5, 2014 at 10:12 pm)Rampant.A.I. Wrote: Atheism actually predates the church by thousands of years, and probably since the dawn of humanity.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_atheism

The Scientific Revolution was more a spread of knowledge than a rebellion, allowing for scientific inquiry to advance into areas previously suppressed by the church.

Atheism does not predate Theism, because it came from it. Explain to me how there could be an Atheist, without there first being a Theist?

There are tribes who simply never developed supernatural beliefs.

Quote:Atheism & Skepticism in Africa

As Durant explains, certain Pygmy tribes found in Africa were observed to have no identifiable cults or rites. There were no totems, no gods, no spirits. Their dead were buried without special ceremonies or accompanying items and received no further attention. They even appeared to lack simple superstitions, according to travelers' reports.

Tribes in Cameroon only believed in malicious gods and so made no efforts to placate or please them. According to them, it was useless to even bother trying and more important to deal with whatever problems were placed in their path. Another group, the Vedahs of Ceylon, only admitted the possibility that gods might exist, but went no further. Neither prayers nor sacrifices were suggested in any way.

When specifically asked a god, Durant reports that they answered in a very puzzled manner:

"Is he on a rock? On a white-ant hill? On a tree? I never saw a god!"

http://atheism.about.com/od/atheismhisto...ticism.htm

There were also ancient schools of Hinduism that had supernatural beliefs, but no deities.

(June 5, 2014 at 10:18 pm)mickiel Wrote: Atheism does not predate Theism, because it came from it. Explain to me how there could be an Atheist, without there first being a Theist?

A - Without
Theism - Belief in god

Atheism - Without belief in god/lack of belief in god

Does one have to know about god before not-believing in it? Or would that be the default position?

(June 5, 2014 at 9:45 pm)mickiel Wrote: And the church was its mother. A fact many Atheist seem to be unaware of. Or would soon forget. You would be surprised to see how many scientist were believers in God that actually founded some serious science.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chr...in_science

I am not a religious man or a Christian, but I am often amused at how some Atheist seem to use science as a type of weapon against religion, not knowing that science was once a bedfellow with religion.

Yes, that's true. Once upon a time the Church had such free reign to terrorize, intimidate, and bully, that it had forgotten there was possibility of dissent and actually began to believe in its own bullshit about it being the light and truth, and all that crap.

In its arrogance it had forgotten what a crock of lie it was, and began to nurture science in the utterly stupid overweening conceit of believing science would verify the lies it had told the world for its entire existence and is now begining to actually believe itself.

But soon science put it right, and pointed out just what a crock of shit Christianity really was. This is when the church started to excommunicate and burn men of science,

So fuck off. Science has no hell, but napalm will do entirely adaquately for the likes of the Christian church.

Napoléon Wrote:Science doesn't have a fucking mission. It doesn't make it any less a tool for disproving bullshit claims made by the religious.

Your use of cursing proves nothing either, except a distain for the human language.

I know science has no written mission to disprove religion, and I am glad that point is made clear. Some Atheist may desire that to be true, but its not.

(June 5, 2014 at 10:21 pm)mickiel Wrote: Your use of cursing proves nothing either, except a distain for the human language.

NOT CURSE WORDS! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(June 5, 2014 at 10:21 pm)Chuck Wrote:

(June 5, 2014 at 9:45 pm)mickiel Wrote: And the church was its mother. A fact many Atheist seem to be unaware of. Or would soon forget. You would be surprised to see how many scientist were believers in God that actually founded some serious science.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chr...in_science

I am not a religious man or a Christian, but I am often amused at how some Atheist seem to use science as a type of weapon against religion, not knowing that science was once a bedfellow with religion.

Yes, that's true. Once upon a time the Church had such free reign to terrorize, intimidate, and bully, that it had forgotten there was possibility of dissent and actually began to believe in its own bullshit about it being the light and truth, and all that crap.

In its arrogance it had forgotten what a crock of lie it was, and began to nurture science in the utterly stupid overweening conceit of believing science would verify the lies it had told the world for its entire existence and is now begining to actually believe itself.

But soon science put it right, and pointed out just what a crock of shit Christianity really was. This is when the church started to excommunicate and burn men of science,

So fuck off. Science has no hell, but napalm will do entirely adaquately for the likes of the Christian church.

I don't like the Christian church myself, just as I dislike foul language in a public debate, its a degrading of the human language in my view. I do not believe in hell, but I do believe in God; and I believe in history.

(June 5, 2014 at 10:03 pm)mickiel Wrote:

(June 5, 2014 at 9:52 pm)Losty Wrote: So what? If you believe that the earth is round, you may be surprised to know that scientists used to believe it was flat. I am amused by 'round earth claimers' who use science like a weapon against flat earthers, clearly not knowing that science was once the bedfellow of this belief as well.

Science now has other bedfellows, and it has a " Fan base", which I think Atheism is part of, latching themselves to it as if they are partners. They root for science and treat it like religions treat their gods. A different type of worship.

But science was once the child of the church, its main mission used to be " A search for the divine."

Again I ask, so what?

(June 5, 2014 at 10:20 pm)Napoléon Wrote:

(June 5, 2014 at 10:18 pm)mickiel Wrote: Atheism does not predate Theism, because it came from it. Explain to me how there could be an Atheist, without there first being a Theist?

A - Without
Theism - Belief in god

Atheism - Without belief in god/lack of belief in god

Does one have to know about god before not-believing in it? Or would that be the default position?

Atheism came from Theism, and its absolutely nothing you can do or say to change that. Atheism is the child of Theism, one could not exist without the other.