Were you expecting something different?

WHen I was a student I joined a Christian forum to debate an idiot I saw quoted on FSTDT and one of the threads was "Are there any doctors who are members?"

Of course I responded that I wasn't a doctor but a med student in Melbourne. Someone then said he was the same and asked me which university. When I responded he said, basically, "Oh, I'm at the University of Melbourne. We should get together and talk about how god will work through our hands."

I responded with, "You're kidding right. You can see on my profile that I'm an atheist."

Then the crazy began and I stopped responding . . .

Quote:This doesn't apply to all of them

Actually, to a greater or lesser degree, it does.

Pickup shonuff, I think it's fair to say that you come across as intelligent, well balanced and considerate.
I actually enjoy reading your posts as you've always got something "real" to say.

Most of us here don't need or seek "pats on the back", as we are fairly well rounded and confident in how we see the world. Sometimes this is construed as "arrogance".

The fact that you doubted yourself enough to join a religious forum to try to discover how and why the other half think, to me, shows more compassion and humility than any religious person can muster.

You're not going to become a better person by being crazy just to blend in them and mix better.
It really is sad about your relationship with your brother.

If keeping good with your brother is important to you, which we feel it is, all you can do now is ramp up your diplomatic skills and start faking sincerity around him.

I do it all the time! It's practical!

Also, after reading freuds: "the psychopathology of everyday life" when I was 18 (as a desperate attempt to try to "work out" my violent father), has made all the difference in my life.
I no longer put much weight on what people say, to me it's infinitely more important to analyse "why" they say it.

Good luck man...

(June 22, 2014 at 4:45 pm)whateverist Wrote: I posted on the William Land Craig website http://www.reasonablefaith.org/forums/ for a while. Got to be too annoying. On the plus side I was able to join and participate as an open atheist. Downside: so much resentment and stupidity.

I didn't join there because I vaguely recall (I may be wrong) getting banned from there many years ago. Plus, I was going for more "honest" Christians ("Reasons? What're those? Just believe!") and the very idea of "reasonable (Christian) faith" seems antithetical to that. I figured if I could learn to respect and mingle with the "typical" Christians, conversations with my brother might improve, whereas the snarkey (and I'd say more dishonest) "intellectual" Christians irritate me to no end with their "sophisticated" obscurantism (though to be sure, that's the type my brother is--great at asking questions, though not always correctly, but AWFUL at answering them).

(June 22, 2014 at 4:14 pm)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: So after my latest shameful confrontation with my brother (outlined here: http://atheistforums.org/thread-26883.html), which I still feel bad about, I decided I wanted to make a concerted effort to connect with people more, specifically of the religious variety (most of the population, so probably a good place to start). My brother accused me of intolerance and I take that charge seriously since I think intolerance is one of the poisons of the faith. Anyway, I joined worthychristianforums.com to try and understand Christians better, to foster more civilized discussion in myself (knowing I could get banned for "cussing" is a good way to keep my ass in line), and to perhaps form a common ground by which we can work together for the betterment of the world.

Holy fuck, your future Paradise Garden Graduates© make my brother look like Einstein. Not only that, they're ridiculously condescending and arrogant. This doesn't apply to all of them, of course, but a great many whom I've already interacted with.

Here's some posts, seriously. This one is titled "Absolute PROOF Jesus is God by knowing helicopters exactly described i" (sic). Apparently, the imagery in the Book of Revelation is meant to be understood as military helicopters. No. SERIOUSLY.

Another, titled "TROLLS," brought forth this little nugget of wisdom from a member: "If I may add? ...


Trolls are also people who need Jesus. We should pray for them too."

To which another replied: "They probably need prayer even MORE than most. I totally agree."

Jesus, I can see why Christians come here. In my thread, "Children and Religion," in which I am trying to understand if Christians encourage their children to seek opposing views, my worst suspicions of the pernicious close-mindedness wrought by religion are repeatedly confirmed:

"Teaching a child about hell having effects? I was taught about hell when I was about four years old from my grandfather preaching in a church. It has had no effects that are negative on me, therefore I must say the whole claim that teaching developing children about hell has effects.... well, that claim is pretty bogus. In fact, it soumds to me as another plot to persecute the faith."

!!!

"are we able to question scripture? i've never met anyone who didn't question scripture. most feel guilty about it. i don't... but i do want you to understand that even when i question scripture, i've never doubted God."

!!!

"Pickup shonuff, I cannot replyby quote sometimes due to limited software capabilities.

first of all I have never doubted my faith. I have heard The Almighty speak, more than once. And no, I was not on any drugs."

Holy fuck, I could go on but you catch my drift, I'm sure. Christians, are your fellow congregants at church generally this credulous? How the fuck could a person maintain their sanity around that!? (On a side note, a few have been very pleasant and appear to possess some intelligence. A few.)

There are actually people who expect you to believe that an almighty forever invincible god - became TOTALLY human (which is nonsense based on the rest of the story) - was crucified by Romans (Although there is NO evidence that happened in the historical record) - and DIED (So much for forever) - and then came back to life - and rose up above the clouds to a "heaven" - seen by MULTITUDES - not one of which ever wrote anything about ANY of this down.

The next thing they will tell you is if you pray hard enough - their god will cure diseases too!

(June 22, 2014 at 7:22 pm)ThomM Wrote: There are actually people who expect you to believe that an almighty forever invincible god - became TOTALLY human (which is nonsense based on the rest of the story) - was crucified by Romans (Although there is NO evidence that happened in the historical record) - and DIED (So much for forever) - and then came back to life - and rose up above the clouds to a "heaven" - seen by MULTITUDES - not one of which ever wrote anything about ANY of this down.

The next thing they will tell you is if you pray hard enough - their god will cure diseases too!

Don't forget that the entire reason for that was so that the god who did that did it so he could forgive you for things he knew you would do because he supposedly knows everything and created everyone knowing they would do everything, so he sent himself which was technically himself to protect you from the things he would do to you because he would send you to a place he created (since he created everything right?) as punishment for the things he created in the first place after creating humans which were infallible because he felt like doing it. *Gasp for air* However, even though he knew everything before it happened, he still was "disappointed" in the behavior of the very thing he created in the first place even though he knew he would be disappointed because he knows everything so he committed mass genocide to give them all a good chance to start over again (spoiler alert: didn't work). No particular order of course.

So ultimately it's a "perfect" plan to toss a small child into a playpen filled with knives, tell them not to play with knives, go in the other room, come back and act surprised when they play with knives and then punish them for playing with knives. Once they've played with knives you punish them severely by injecting them with genetic diseases so that they will constantly suffer and their children will suffer for things that they suffered from all because of something their parents did years ago. Then we call that "justified" and tell every future generation that they are imperfect and deserve that suffering because of what their parents did some years ago for the finite crime of playing with knives when they weren't old enough to know any better in that playpen on that faithful day.

You then hand them a book full of things they can and can't do and must obey it exactly as it commands. If they don't do exactly as you say, you toss them into a furnace in which them burning in it lasts forever. If they do what you say, they can play and frolic and eat ice cream for all eternity. However, it's totally "free will." This plan... is... PERFECT

Seems legit.

Predictably, my thread got deleted with no explanation, and I am actually a bit baffled because I thought I was being very cordial and honest in my questioning (though objective and critical as any sincere person should be when approaching any topic). So I posted this on a new thread, after looking around for where I might personally address a moderator (which I couldn't find--their boards suck):

"I had a topic posted "Children and Religion" in which I wanted to explore the rationale behind indoctrinating children with religious beliefs, whether or not treating them as sickly and in danger of eternal damnation is helpful or harmful to their psychological well-being, and whether or not doubt and information that disagrees with Christian orthodoxy ought to be discouraged or studied and understood. I remained polite and honest but critical and objective in my questioning, as anyone with a sincere approach to any topic should do, and it appears to have been deleted. I take that as basically confirming my biggest concern about Christianity, as with all cults and religions--the word is to be taken at face value, and anything that challenges that common wisdom is to be oppressed and destroyed. I looked around to see where I could ask a mod about this but did not find a specific forum to do so. Why was the thread deleted? Understandably, one of the "Christian" members who responded (claiming to speak for all the others) appeared upset that I pressed them on some of their unjustified claims, noted by their arrogant and disrespectful tone towards me (assuming I "just can't get it" unless I drink the kool-aid first--which, by the way, I have, and ultimately found its contents distasteful), but I can't see that as reasonable cause to delete the thread. Not to mention, it's an important discussion that believers and unbelievers should be having among themselves and one another. Is there a general criteria by which threads get deleted? Or is it simply if a so-called "Christian" doesn't like having their views challenged, they can request that the questions simply "go away"?"

Does anyone find my post offensive? Wanna bet it's going to cause a shit storm and get deleted anyway?

I've belonged to a couple of christian forums, as an open atheist, and have avoided banning. Keeping clean language, a cool head, and relationships very impersonal is how I've done it.

But yes, it is very numbing.

As an animal language expert once said:
You can learn the language of a lion but you still won't be able to communicate with them due to their completely "different" cognitive processes.

Once you take the red pill, there IS no turning back.
You cannot ever "unlearn" logic and reasoning.