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RE: Disproving the Bible
July 7, 2014 at 2:49 pm
(July 7, 2014 at 1:20 pm)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote: (July 7, 2014 at 11:49 am)SteveII Wrote: While you might only desire facts, beliefs are not irrelevant. Philosophy and science go hand in hand.
I stand by my statement. Whilst philosophy has a place, it does nothing to actually explore reality and explain it, merely theorise on it.
(July 7, 2014 at 11:49 am)SteveII Wrote: You are right to say that science is not concerned with disproving the Bible. That would be a philosophical statement which science, by definition, cannot make. However, many people (including the first post in this thread) seem to think it does and has.
'Science' only reveals what it sets out to reveal. We all have to deal with the consequences of what it reveals.
I would say that science describes reality and philosophy explains it. Official definition something like: the study of the fundamental nature of knowledge, reality, and existence. That is why you will never find God under a microscope, but through philosophy discover that the existence of God is more plausible that not.
That is the hurdle for atheists. You believe that science is everything and can explain everything. However, that is just the philosophy of naturalism--which, no matter how hard you try, cannot explain everything.
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RE: Disproving the Bible
July 7, 2014 at 2:51 pm
(July 7, 2014 at 10:06 am)SteveII Wrote: 1. If God exists, miracles exist The first premise is flawed.
You haven't defined "god".
If we play devil's advocate and for sake of argument say a deity exists, that doesn't automatically mean miracles and other such violations of the natural universe can occur also.
For example, Pantheists/deists assert god is the natural universe and natural laws, therefore miracles, unnatural events that defy that order, are impossible.
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RE: Disproving the Bible
July 7, 2014 at 2:55 pm
(July 7, 2014 at 2:39 pm)SteveII Wrote: (July 7, 2014 at 1:50 pm)ShaMan Wrote: There is so much about the bible that is esoteric, and therefore misunderstood - mostly by Christians.
That is an easy thing to type in the text box but does nothing to explain. Please enlighten! Here's ONE for you. The story about Abraham being asked by God to sacrifice his son is really about the higher mind ("God") asking Abraham (every Human) to slay their stern ego constructs (kill their "son") on an alter of stone (the Human heart). In other words... It's not a literal story where a God asks a man to kill his only son to demonstrate faith. It's a story about a man questioning his own obsessions, and agreeing that it would be best to remove obstacles of the ego that prevent him from knowing "God" (One's true self). The "ram" God provided was an alternate consideration for Abraham to embrace, rather than his exaggerated obsession with his "son" (ego).
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RE: Disproving the Bible
July 7, 2014 at 2:57 pm
(This post was last modified: July 7, 2014 at 2:58 pm by Fidel_Castronaut.)
(July 7, 2014 at 2:49 pm)SteveII Wrote: (July 7, 2014 at 1:20 pm)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote: I stand by my statement. Whilst philosophy has a place, it does nothing to actually explore reality and explain it, merely theorise on it.
'Science' only reveals what it sets out to reveal. We all have to deal with the consequences of what it reveals.
I would say that science describes reality and philosophy explains it. Official definition something like: the study of the fundamental nature of knowledge, reality, and existence. That is why you will never find God under a microscope, but through philosophy discover that the existence of God is more plausible that not.
That is the hurdle for atheists. You believe that science is everything and can explain everything. However, that is just the philosophy of naturalism--which, no matter how hard you try, cannot explain everything.
If 'philosophy' is the only place you can find a god then it would appear being an atheist is the only logical 'position' to hold on whether one can prove a given god or gods exist.
My minimum requirement for believing a god exists is verifiable and testable evidence. As philosophy is unable to provide this, then what do you say to convince people that your version of whatever god it is you worship exists?
Atheism =/= 'science'. Atheists are united only by their lack of belief in deities. There is no hurdle for any of us to overcome. Indeed, convincing us that your version of your god exists; that's the hurdle, and it's entirely yours.
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RE: Disproving the Bible
July 7, 2014 at 2:58 pm
(This post was last modified: July 7, 2014 at 3:00 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
@ ShaMan
Or, and I'm just spitballing here - people like to tell stories.
I'm just wondering, would you apply that sort of process to a Stephanie Meyer book for me? Maybe one of the "Wheres Waldo"'s? I want to see some deep insight spring forth from that little hat Waldos always got on.
(dead serious, if you can manage it...I will give millions of kudos)
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Disproving the Bible
July 7, 2014 at 3:06 pm
(July 7, 2014 at 2:55 pm)ShaMan Wrote: (July 7, 2014 at 2:39 pm)SteveII Wrote: That is an easy thing to type in the text box but does nothing to explain. Please enlighten! Here's ONE for you. The story about Abraham being asked by God to sacrifice his son is really about the higher mind ("God") asking Abraham (every Human) to slay their stern ego constructs (kill their "son") on an alter of stone (the Human heart). In other words... It's not a literal story where a God asks a man to kill his only son to demonstrate faith. It's a story about a man questioning his own obsessions, and agreeing that it would be best to remove obstacles of the ego that prevent him from knowing "God" (One's true self). The "ram" God provided was an alternate consideration for Abraham to embrace, rather than his exaggerated obsession with his "son" (ego).
It is your opinion that it is not a real story. I would say that most Christians believe the story as it is told.
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RE: Disproving the Bible
July 7, 2014 at 3:08 pm
(This post was last modified: July 7, 2014 at 3:13 pm by ShaMan.)
(July 7, 2014 at 2:58 pm)Rhythm Wrote: @ShaMan
Or, and I'm just spitballing here - people like to tell stories.
I'm just wondering, would you apply that sort of process to a Stephanie Meyer book for me? Maybe one of the "Wheres Waldo"'s? I want to see some deep insight spring forth from that little hat Waldos always got on.
(dead serious, if you can manage it...I will give millions of kudos) People LOVE to tell stories. The esoteric processes one uses to expound upon various considerations are easily contorted to allow for any anomaly. When considering Waldo's hat, I am given to the impression that his hat, while in one sense is distracting and obvious, is at the same time, a distraction from the obvious 
![[Image: waldo-finds-himself.jpg]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=hateandanger.files.wordpress.com%2F2013%2F11%2Fwaldo-finds-himself.jpg)
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RE: Disproving the Bible
July 7, 2014 at 3:08 pm
(This post was last modified: July 7, 2014 at 3:09 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
@ steve
I sure as hell hope not. But, you're probably right.
@ ShaMan...lol, I am in your debt sir.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Disproving the Bible
July 7, 2014 at 3:10 pm
(This post was last modified: July 7, 2014 at 3:18 pm by Muslim Atheism.)
(July 7, 2014 at 2:55 pm)ShaMan Wrote: The story about Abraham being asked by God to sacrifice his son
From the Quran, there is no such sacrifice, it is fake. . a simple reading the whole context and corroborated verses would reveal everything. It's about a boy who migrated with Abraham to build new places, their vision. . That is their sacrifice, and after they were expelled.
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RE: Disproving the Bible
July 7, 2014 at 3:11 pm
(This post was last modified: July 7, 2014 at 3:28 pm by ShaMan.)
(July 7, 2014 at 3:06 pm)SteveII Wrote: I would say that most Christians believe the story as it is told. I'm sure you're right about that. Now, if only those same Christians would consider their negative ego constructs and change the way they think, (like Jesus tells them to do), then perhaps they too could benefit from the wisdom contained in-between the shadows and archetypes found in biblical texts.
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