Sup damsels and gents; hope everyone is doing well, yes?
I had a thought earlier from today to ask you all.

On a totally naturalistic view, what is love? Of course, naturalistically it’s no more significant than hunger but we treat it with such high esteem; saying, “I’m hungry” usually (and in my experience) isn’t as moving as saying “I love you.” More often than not it conveys a deep sense personal truth. When it’s sincere, the phrase, “I love you,” is as absolute as the square root of 9; you do love them. Love itself is a complex thing; it’s an amalgamation of different emotions and just defining what it is is quite different from experiencing it. Simply equating it to the firing of neurons in our brains doesn’t come close to describing it’s significance (and I would venture to say it is significant).

But, I suppose that has brought us full circle; like a hamster on a wheel it’s come around again.

What are you thoughts?

Also, I wanted to use a few more words to make myself sound smart, but
couldn’t find where to use them, so I’ll just leave them here.

Psychosomatic
Epiphenomenal
Biochemistry
Thesaurus

(Here are some resources for the discussion you might find useful.)

I think we do tend to put love on a higher pedestal than other emotions, and some people want to think there's some big divide between love and lust. Like love is this deep spiritual thing, while lust is a dirty perverted thing.

(July 8, 2014 at 8:18 pm)XK9_Knight Wrote: Sup damsels and gents; hope everyone is doing well, yes?
I had a thought earlier from today to ask you all.

On a totally naturalistic view, what is love? Of course, naturalistically it’s no more significant than hunger but we treat it with such high esteem; saying, “I’m hungry” usually (and in my experience) isn’t as moving as saying “I love you.” More often than not it conveys a deep sense personal truth. When it’s sincere, the phrase, “I love you,” is as absolute as the square root of 9; you do love them. Love itself is a complex thing; it’s an amalgamation of different emotions and just defining what it is is quite different from experiencing it. Simply equating it to the firing of neurons in our brains doesn’t come close to describing it’s significance (and I would venture to say it is significant).

But, I suppose that has brought us full circle; like a hamster on a wheel it’s come around again.

What are you thoughts?

Love is very important. Besides feeling good it's why parents care about their children enough to spend the time and resources to raise them, support their parents in old age, care for the sick, and a whole host of other things. It's the only reason our current dog is alive.

(July 8, 2014 at 8:18 pm)XK9_Knight Wrote: Also, I wanted to use a few more words to make myself sound smart, but
couldn’t find where to use them, so I’ll just leave them here.

Psychosomatic
Epiphenomenal
Biochemistry
Thesaurus

With the exception of Thesaurus all of those word may be germane. Certainly biochemistry is. I remember reading that nursing a baby releases more endorphins than sex. Not sure I believe that, but those good old endorphins are part love story. And nursing sure feels good. So does staring into a lover's eyes, holding hands, giving things away, and a whole host of other good things.

(July 8, 2014 at 8:40 pm)Chad32 Wrote: I think we do tend to put love on a higher pedestal than other emotions, and some people want to think there's some big divide between love and lust. Like love is this deep spiritual thing, while lust is a dirty perverted thing.

Lust is one of the clearest, maybe the clearest, emotions people ever experience. There's no ambiguity with lust. The christers shaming people who feel lust is just sick and perverted. Not only are we hard-wired for it, without it our species would spiral into extinction right quick!

Love, on the other hand is such a mixed bag. I love my father and loved my mother. I love my kids. I love my best friend since third grade like a brother (more than either of my real brothers, in fact). I've also loved dogs, cats, songs, movies... You get the idea. Oh, and, I fucking LOVE my Triumph Spitfire! Even if she is a bit under the weather right now. Love is a good thing, but it certainly doesn't need the pedestal.

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(July 8, 2014 at 9:01 pm)Jenny A Wrote: Love is very important. Besides feeling good it's why parents care about their children enough to spend the time and resources to raise them, support their parents in old age, care for the sick, and a whole host of other things. It's the only reason our current dog is alive.

I would argue that compassion and empathy are more important than love. Without them, love can become tragic instead of beautiful. Compassion and empathy also lead to helping others, even when you don't know them, rescuing animals, rescuing humans even. Love is a good thing, but I think it's our compassion and empathy that give us a chance at surviving the next 50-100 years.

(July 8, 2014 at 11:37 pm)GalacticBusDriver Wrote:

(July 8, 2014 at 9:01 pm)Jenny A Wrote: Love is very important. Besides feeling good it's why parents care about their children enough to spend the time and resources to raise them, support their parents in old age, care for the sick, and a whole host of other things. It's the only reason our current dog is alive.

I would argue that compassion and empathy are more important than love. Without them, love can become tragic instead of beautiful. Compassion and empathy also lead to helping others, even when you don't know them, rescuing animals, rescuing humans even. Love is a good thing, but I think it's our compassion and empathy that give us a chance at surviving the next 50-100 years.

I'll give you that. Compassion and empathy are probably more important than love. Still rather feel love than feel compassion if I have the choice. Though love seems inevitably to come with compassion for at least one person.

But being passionately in love is a drug. The only question is whether it will end with a hang over or just settle down into something pleasant and homey.

I'm sorry, but this thread is bullshit until "significant" is defined. The feelings we call love are obviously very strong motivators-- they cause people to behave in ways they otherwise wouldn't. If people's behavior is significant, then love is significant.

I think what you are really trying to get at is at mind/matter duality, with the possibility of the existence of the soul and God as "peripheral." Unlike most here, I'm not a physical monist, so I agree with much of what I expect you to say. However, since you've declared as Christian, I assume you are also building a case in order to support the idea of a Christian God. I won't agree with that.

Also, welcome.

In the words of the prophetess Tina Turner (peace be upon her)...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGpFcHTxjZs

Love is the human way to keep oxytocin on a natural steady drip. Evolved trait to keep from killing our young as they take so long to kick out of the nest.

(July 8, 2014 at 8:18 pm)XK9_Knight Wrote: On a totally naturalistic view, what is love? Of course, naturalistically it’s no more significant than hunger but we treat it with such high esteem;

Well, I think that whether or not love is treated with greater esteem than hunger probably has something to do with the last time a person had something to eat.

I don't buy this idea that just because love is a chemical arrangement in my brain, my experience of it is somehow devalued, or different from anyone else's. It's still the same experience, it carries the same import as it would to someone who believes it's some special soul magic, because it's elicited by my consciousness and history with a person. Why should the fact that I know where it comes from, and that that origin is mundane rather than supernatural, make the effect less valuable?

I like being in love, I love the woman I'm with, I've loved others and will love again, and any theist who feels they have a license to scoff at the legitimacy of my emotions because of my belief about gods is an asshole. Not saying that's you, OP, just making a statement in general there.