I just wanted to start of with saying that my theist grandparents are two of the most loving and caring individuals in my entire life. They're smart too, but they've found a way to convince themselves that they aren't.

They love to talk about world issues, cop shows/crimes/forensics, and even science. I find there company very encouraging.

But here is my issue, I don't stand up for myself or the truth but I'm not sure if it is all that important.

My grandmother, specifically, is very outspoken. She's kind of on and off with whether or not she agrees with my scientific arguments. Like one day she's cool with evolution, the next day she says "I don't come from a monkey." One day she is cool with the Big Bang Theory and the next day she argues the 6,000 year theory.

Normally, I don't argue to much on these points because I don't find it useful to do so, the point is mute. But yesterday they were arguing that that funny little method of using two sticks that point to water is efficient enough to find a well. I believe it is called "dowsing."

From what I understand, dowsing is pretty much debunked. It's a bunch of rubbish but when I tried to convey this to my grandparents...wow! They sure got defensive!

I really should have showed him the Richard Dawkins segment where a psychologist debunks the practice with a controlled experiment.

But then again...I let this one go, to sympathetically argue was not enough, so I dropped out before anything was instigated but now I feel bad.

I had totally forgotten how easily superstitious and illogical I was as a theist (mormon) until last night with my grandparents.

I understand their belief in God, but dowsing? Really?

I hope not all theists are as superstitious and non-critical of such crazy ideas.

I learned at a very young age not to discuss politics, religion, or science with a lot of my relatives. They would get defensive over the strangest things.

BTW, El C, it's "moot" not "mute". Sorry- just a little pet peeve of mine

Quote: Like one day she's cool with evolution, the next day she says "I don't come from a monkey." One day she is cool with the Big Bang Theory and the next day she argues the 6,000 year theory.

How old are they? Could be early-onset alzheimers.

I always argue with my elders.

How else am I to show them that I'm always right?

Don't fight or argue with them ....ever.
The facts are out there in black and white, no need for opinions.
They've gone this long with their beliefs, if you love them, let them be.
As I've mentioned to others, dealing with illogical people has turned me into a fucking diplomat. Either that or I end up killing 100 people in a fit of frustration.

(July 14, 2014 at 11:32 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote: Like one day she's cool with evolution, the next day she says "I don't come from a monkey." One day she is cool with the Big Bang Theory and the next day she argues the 6,000 year theory.

How old are they? Could be early-onset alzheimers.

Just had a call a few days ago from a friend I hear from only a few times a year. After the call, I thought about dementia or Alzheimers. 'Mike' was so angry/edgy, and then described some (to me) disturbing behaviors he is engaged in lately.

I need to see him in person, over the phone is inadequate for me to know for sure what's going on, but the 'Mike' I spoke with the other day is definitely not my good friend from 12 Steppers of the last 10 years anymore.

He's 60. It really saddens me if that is what is going on. I last spoke to him during the holidays, 2013/2014, and in retrospect, I'm thinking I should have picked up on something then.

Hope Minimalist relative is OK, but I'd be concerned.

There has also been discussion on the news of late of people having long term negative consequences of concussion(s). Might be another issue to look into.

I've learned not to argue with my mother over religion for much the same reasons. I remember sensibly discussing The Selfish Gene with her when I was in college and now she sends me emails proving: Obama is not a natural born U.S. Citizen; species spontaneously are created thus proving evolution is wrong; there are *gasp* unfavorable mutations thus proving evolution wrong; homosexuals are curable.

I love her. She loves me. There's no profit in trying to change her mind in her late 70s. What good would it do?

http://www.alz.org/alzheimers_disease_st...asp#stage3

Quote:Not everyone will experience the same symptoms or progress at the same rate. This seven-stage framework is based on a system developed by Barry Reisberg, M.D., clinical director of the New York University School of Medicine's Silberstein Aging and Dementia Research Center.

It is like this with my mother who is hitting well on to her 80's. In general she is a "good person" but she has very skewed morals and I do not know if it is old age or what. She is gullible and impressionable and incapable of being reasoned with. On top of this she has a weird habit of lying and this is something I see in almost any older theist if they are of the Muslim or Christian persuasion. Dogmatic religions like these can entirely skew one's morals and make them resort to self deceit. Ignorance breeds this sort of behavior and no matter what you do you cannot argue with people who have lived decades in a religious society. The religious society valued suppression of knowledge while the secular society does not so widely available knowledge was never made accessible to elders.
Let them be and do not bother arguing with them unless you are in my position where you are forced to argue when they damaging your life like my own mother does. But even then that can be ignored but I do not think that is your case.

(July 14, 2014 at 11:56 pm)Minimalist Wrote: http://www.alz.org/alzheimers_disease_st...asp#stage3

Quote:Not everyone will experience the same symptoms or progress at the same rate. This seven-stage framework is based on a system developed by Barry Reisberg, M.D., clinical director of the New York University School of Medicine's Silberstein Aging and Dementia Research Center.

We went from helping my mother recall certain words in conversation to not being recognized or her being able to recall shared memories in just two months.