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August 11, 2014 at 10:45 am (This post was last modified: August 11, 2014 at 10:49 am by FallentoReason.)
Firstly, I'd like to say that it's been a while since I've been here! I guess long story short, I decided about a year ago to stop questioning life and actually just live it for now. This led me to sink into apatheism indefinitely.
Anyways, the reason why I've come here to post again, is that I've got a bit of a crisis. Like most people, I want a family, and this means that eventually I will have to find the girl - a.k.a. "the one" - that is for me. But over the last couple of years, meeting new girls is something that has happened once every 5-6 months, if that (maybe a bit of context about me might help here: if you don't remember, I'm 23 and a full time engineering student. I also play in a band, and the rest of my time is devoted to working/socialising with friends). So with such a low rate of meeting new girls, it hardly seems like finding "the one" will be something that can just happen without me having to try.
This leads me to where I'm at now. I had a sort of revelation recently that led me to think in a new way. Long story short, I don't see the problem with approaching someone completely random who I think is attractive (say e.g. at a cafe) and making myself known, perhaps by making a witty/cute comment that will grab their attention.
I've tried this over the last week, and have gotten 4 out of 4 girls' numbers.
Now, here's where my crisis begins.
I thought this was the answer to my problem; that I just need to start being more pro-active and make things come about instead of waiting for some miracle. But then discussing my revelation with a couple of friends kind of undermined my new mentality. They completely disagreed with what I was doing because they thought a potential relationship with one of these girls would have a completely artificial foundation, and thus wouldn't be an enjoyable/genuine relationship, because I created the circumstances for us to meet.
A brief discussion with a separate friend completely left me destroyed and hopeless, after he said that I should make my intentions known asap [with one of the four girls I'm currently interested in] and hold her hand/kiss her next time, because I'm fast approaching 30 years of age. I guess what I didn't like about his advice was that basically I need to quite literally act desperate and try establish a sort of early relationship with her. I don't feel like that's the right way of doing things, but then there's the whole "friend zone" business that I think he was alluding to.
I'm not sure what you guys are meant to get out of the above. Maybe I've just vomited a bunch of thoughts that don't make sense.. but yeah.. I guess that would actually be accurate because I don't know what to do anymore. All I know is that I want a family someday, but getting there seems like one in a million right now.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it" ~ Aristotle
The more people you meet the better, just weed them out, which takes about 30 minutes a time. She'll do the same. Even if she's not the 'One' you might get laid.
(August 11, 2014 at 10:45 am)FallentoReason Wrote: But then discussing my revelation with a couple of friends kind of undermined my new mentality. They completely disagreed with what I was doing because they thought a potential relationship with one of these girls would have a completely artificial foundation, and thus wouldn't be an enjoyable/genuine relationship, because I created the circumstances for us to meet.
[My bolding]
If you meet a girl in one of your engineering classes you will have created the circumstances for you meet by going to college and deciding to major in engineering.
If you meet a girl at one of your band gigs, you will have created the circumstances for you meet by accepting that gig and showing up for it.
If you think about it, even if you joined some kind of meetup group for people with similar interests and met someone there, you'd have created the circumstances for you meet by joining that meetup group.
And who says you can't have a meaningful, enjoyable or genuine relationship with someone you happen to chance upon? If you introduce yourself, get a number and go on a date you might find out that you stumbled upon a girl that is really compatible with you.
You know the saying:
It works the same way for dating. The more feelers you have out there, the more dates you go on, the more probable it will be that you'll meet someone you really like. What you need to determine is whether you want to take a shotgun approach (going to every singles bar and speed-dating seminar to maximize exposure) or whether you want to take a more targeted approach (by limiting yourself to groups or activities where you'll more likely share some interests to start with).
Who cares about how you meet*; what matters is that you meet.
*Within socially acceptable limits; i.e. no stalking or other creepy/scary approaches :p
Move at a pace dictated by the circumstances. If it feel like a hand-holdy moment or a kissing moment, then maybe it is, but don't force a moment just to move the relationship forward. Be genuine, and don't think you have to get married by a specific age (a man's biological clock is no where near as limited as a woman's). Focus on finding a compatible partner who shares your values and makes you happy, and who you make happy in turn.
Teenaged X-Files obsession + Bermuda Triangle episode + Self-led school research project = Atheist.
August 11, 2014 at 11:13 am (This post was last modified: August 11, 2014 at 11:16 am by Ben Davis.)
(August 11, 2014 at 10:45 am)FallentoReason Wrote:
Firstly, I'd like to say that it's been a while since I've been here! I guess long story short, I decided about a year ago to stop questioning life and actually just live it for now. This led me to sink into apatheism indefinitely.
Anyways, the reason why I've come here to post again, is that I've got a bit of a crisis. Like most people, I want a family, and this means that eventually I will have to find the girl - a.k.a. "the one" - that is for me. But over the last couple of years, meeting new girls is something that has happened once every 5-6 months, if that (maybe a bit of context about me might help here: if you don't remember, I'm 23 and a full time engineering student. I also play in a band, and the rest of my time is devoted to working/socialising with friends). So with such a low rate of meeting new girls, it hardly seems like finding "the one" will be something that can just happen without me having to try.
This leads me to where I'm at now. I had a sort of revelation recently that led me to think in a new way. Long story short, I don't see the problem with approaching someone completely random who I think is attractive (say e.g. at a cafe) and making myself known, perhaps by making a witty/cute comment that will grab their attention.
I've tried this over the last week, and have gotten 4 out of 4 girls' numbers.
Now, here's where my crisis begins.
I thought this was the answer to my problem; that I just need to start being more pro-active and make things come about instead of waiting for some miracle. But then discussing my revelation with a couple of friends kind of undermined my new mentality. They completely disagreed with what I was doing because they thought a potential relationship with one of these girls would have a completely artificial foundation, and thus wouldn't be an enjoyable/genuine relationship, because I created the circumstances for us to meet.
A brief discussion with a separate friend completely left me destroyed and hopeless, after he said that I should make my intentions known asap [with one of the four girls I'm currently interested in] and hold her hand/kiss her next time, because I'm fast approaching 30 years of age. I guess what I didn't like about his advice was that basically I need to quite literally act desperate and try establish a sort of early relationship with her. I don't feel like that's the right way of doing things, but then there's the whole "friend zone" business that I think he was alluding to.
I'm not sure what you guys are meant to get out of the above. Maybe I've just vomited a bunch of thoughts that don't make sense.. but yeah.. I guess that would actually be accurate because I don't know what to do anymore. All I know is that I want a family someday, but getting there seems like one in a million right now.
Howdo FTR, welcome back!
Firstly "I play in a band" and "meeting new girls is something that has happened once every 5-6 months" seem incompatible to me. My hit rate was never higher than when I was performing. Only 1 lasting relationship out of it but hey, that's not what I was in it for at the time
The first bit's simple. It sounds like your new approach is not only fun but you obviously have the self-confidence to pull it off: 4/4?! That's success right there! Ignore the comments about 'artificial foundation'; there's nothing 'artificial' about introducing yourself. The only way you meet new people is that you introduce yourself or are introduced to them. If you want to have any say over the people with whom you interact, you introduce yourself. Simple.
The second bit's the toughie. How long should you leave it before you 'go for it'? Well, I would say that you should move to a 'dating' phase fairly quickly. Imagine if a stranger came up to you, used tactics that are consistent with relationship-building but then didn't ask you out. How would that leave you feeling? It's not 'desperate' to move quickly. Ever had a one-night stand? Just keep in mind what you're after (people to date with a view of a serious relationship) and act in a manner consistent with the urgency you feel to fulfill that need. Many people >25 find that honesty about relationship-ambitions is not only an expected conversation, fairly soon after the dating stage begins but a necessary one. Just not on the first date! Keep the references light at first then develop detail as the relationship develops. If it's too fast for them and they're honest, they'll let you know. Also your age doesn't really have much to do with it, unless there's a big age gap and even then that's not necessarily a problem.
You sound like your well on the right track. Good luck!
August 11, 2014 at 11:17 am (This post was last modified: August 11, 2014 at 11:43 am by FallentoReason.)
(August 11, 2014 at 11:04 am)Diablo Wrote: I didn't know that 23 was approaching 30.
I guess the point he was making was that I'm not getting any younger.
Quote:The more people you meet the better, just weed them out, which takes about 30 minutes a time. She'll do the same. Even if she's not the 'One' you might get laid.
Haha, I don't care so much about getting laid. I'd rather find someone worth investing my time in.
(August 11, 2014 at 11:10 am)Clueless Morgan Wrote:
(August 11, 2014 at 10:45 am)FallentoReason Wrote: But then discussing my revelation with a couple of friends kind of undermined my new mentality. They completely disagreed with what I was doing because they thought a potential relationship with one of these girls would have a completely artificial foundation, and thus wouldn't be an enjoyable/genuine relationship, because I created the circumstances for us to meet.
[My bolding]
If you meet a girl in one of your engineering classes you will have created the circumstances for you meet by going to college and deciding to major in engineering.
If you meet a girl at one of your band gigs, you will have created the circumstances for you meet by accepting that gig and showing up for it.
If you think about it, even if you joined some kind of meetup group for people with similar interests and met someone there, you'd have created the circumstances for you meet by joining that meetup group.
Mmmm, the distinction is more subtle that than. For example, meeting a girl at a cafe means that I deliberately have to approach her and initiate that connection, thereby "creating the circumstances". The examples you have given, I would think, are going to take a more natural course, with genuine opportunities arising in those environments.
Quote:And who says you can't have a meaningful, enjoyable or genuine relationship with someone you happen to chance upon? If you introduce yourself, get a number and go on a date you might find out that you stumbled upon a girl that is really compatible with you.
You know the saying:
It works the same way for dating. The more feelers you have out there, the more dates you go on, the more probable it will be that you'll meet someone you really like. What you need to determine is whether you want to take a shotgun approach (going to every singles bar and speed-dating seminar to maximize exposure) or whether you want to take a more targeted approach (by limiting yourself to groups or activities where you'll more likely share some interests to start with).
Who cares about how you meet*; what matters is that you meet.
*Within socially acceptable limits; i.e. no stalking or other creepy/scary approaches :p
Thanks for backing me up here. I'm glad someone else thinks it's not something crazy to do.
Quote:Move at a pace dictated by the circumstances. If it feel like a hand-holdy moment or a kissing moment, then maybe it is, but don't force a moment just to move the relationship forward. Be genuine, and don't think you have to get married by a specific age (a man's biological clock is no where near as limited as a woman's). Focus on finding a compatible partner who shares your values and makes you happy, and who you make happy in turn.
Which is something I should have told my mate who essentially told me to act desperate haha.
(August 11, 2014 at 11:12 am)Bibliofagus Wrote: Your friends have some pretty funny ideas i'd say. Are you sure they are not messsing with you?
Well, the first two that I mentioned are liberal Christians that basically want their future wife to be someone they naturally came across one day, by chance. I can imagine they want on their wedding day to be able to tell this amazing story that led them to fall in love.
I can see where they're coming from, and I wholeheartedly would love such a thing to happen to me. But statistically speaking, that might finally happen to me 20 years down the line.
The third mate that I mentioned is "Catholic", and has had around 10 relationships by now, with most of them having started when he met the girl somewhere/somehow, and then not even joking, have gone on dates 3-4 days in a row after the day they met, with kissing in between and I'm sure sex within the first couple of weeks.
This is actually something that I definitely find artificial and I wouldn't be comfortable establishing a relationship this way. In saying that, it seems like it works for him, and that's good for him I suppose.
(August 11, 2014 at 11:13 am)Ben Davis Wrote:
(August 11, 2014 at 10:45 am)FallentoReason Wrote:
Firstly, I'd like to say that it's been a while since I've been here! I guess long story short, I decided about a year ago to stop questioning life and actually just live it for now. This led me to sink into apatheism indefinitely.
Anyways, the reason why I've come here to post again, is that I've got a bit of a crisis. Like most people, I want a family, and this means that eventually I will have to find the girl - a.k.a. "the one" - that is for me. But over the last couple of years, meeting new girls is something that has happened once every 5-6 months, if that (maybe a bit of context about me might help here: if you don't remember, I'm 23 and a full time engineering student. I also play in a band, and the rest of my time is devoted to working/socialising with friends). So with such a low rate of meeting new girls, it hardly seems like finding "the one" will be something that can just happen without me having to try.
This leads me to where I'm at now. I had a sort of revelation recently that led me to think in a new way. Long story short, I don't see the problem with approaching someone completely random who I think is attractive (say e.g. at a cafe) and making myself known, perhaps by making a witty/cute comment that will grab their attention.
I've tried this over the last week, and have gotten 4 out of 4 girls' numbers.
Now, here's where my crisis begins.
I thought this was the answer to my problem; that I just need to start being more pro-active and make things come about instead of waiting for some miracle. But then discussing my revelation with a couple of friends kind of undermined my new mentality. They completely disagreed with what I was doing because they thought a potential relationship with one of these girls would have a completely artificial foundation, and thus wouldn't be an enjoyable/genuine relationship, because I created the circumstances for us to meet.
A brief discussion with a separate friend completely left me destroyed and hopeless, after he said that I should make my intentions known asap [with one of the four girls I'm currently interested in] and hold her hand/kiss her next time, because I'm fast approaching 30 years of age. I guess what I didn't like about his advice was that basically I need to quite literally act desperate and try establish a sort of early relationship with her. I don't feel like that's the right way of doing things, but then there's the whole "friend zone" business that I think he was alluding to.
I'm not sure what you guys are meant to get out of the above. Maybe I've just vomited a bunch of thoughts that don't make sense.. but yeah.. I guess that would actually be accurate because I don't know what to do anymore. All I know is that I want a family someday, but getting there seems like one in a million right now.
Howdo FTR, welcome back!
Thank you!
Quote:Firstly "I play in a band" and "meeting new girls is something that has happened once every 5-6 months" seem incompatible to me. My hit rate was never higher than when I was performing. Only 1 lasting relationship out of it but hey, that's not what I was in it for at the time
I thought someone might point this out and basically, the majority of our gigs are at all ages venues, where the average age might be 16ish. So not exactly the best place to meet someone haha.
As for 18+ venues, the only girls I've ever come across are ones that.. well.. the so-called "sluts". I've gotten hookups out of it, but never come across someone wanting something long-term, and I'm very much a relationships person.
Quote:The first bit's simple. It sounds like your new approach is not only fun but you obviously have the self-confidence to pull it off: 4/4?! That's success right there! Ignore the comments about 'artificial foundation'; there's nothing 'artificial' about introducing yourself. The only way you meet new people is that you introduce yourself or are introduced to them. If you want to have any say over the people with whom you interact, you introduce yourself. Simple.
Haha, well I made sure to properly condition myself in order to stand a chance at having success. And that's an interesting thought about the "artificial" aspect. I'll have a think about that one!
Quote:The second bit's the toughie. How long should you leave it before you 'go for it'? Well, I would say that you should move to a 'dating' phase fairly quickly. Imagine if a stranger came up to you, used tactics that are consistent with relationship-building but then didn't ask you out. How would that leave you feeling? It's not 'desperate' to move quickly. Ever had a one-night stand? Just keep in mind what you're after (people to date with a view of a serious relationship) and act in a manner consistent with the urgency you feel to fulfill that need. Many people >25 find that honesty about relationship-ambitions is not only an expected conversation, fairly soon after the dating stage begins but a necessary one. Just not on the first date! Keep the references light at first then develop detail as the relationship develops. If it's too fast for them and they're honest, they'll let you know. Also your age doesn't really have much to do with it, unless there's a big age gap and even then that's not necessarily a problem.
You sound like your well on the right track. Good luck!
One thing that I should mention is that I had a veeeery innocent time being a teen. Simply put, I'm a virgin, due to my teen years having been spent sincerely believing in God. But I guess with religion aside, I think it's fair to say that my disposition towards dating is more of a romantic/old school one. I absolutely love weaving in poetic thoughts about the girl I fancy whenever we talk/text, and I'm always thinking of romantic ways to show I like/love her e.g. organising a candle-lit picnic at the beach beneath the stars. I also wouldn't ever want to have a one night stand.
I guess I need to be myself, and one of these girls will eventually be absolutely head-over-heels with my approach towards establishing a relationship...?
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it" ~ Aristotle
(August 11, 2014 at 11:17 am)FallentoReason Wrote:
(August 11, 2014 at 11:10 am)Clueless Morgan Wrote: [My bolding]
If you meet a girl in one of your engineering classes you will have created the circumstances for you meet by going to college and deciding to major in engineering.
If you meet a girl at one of your band gigs, you will have created the circumstances for you meet by accepting that gig and showing up for it.
If you think about it, even if you joined some kind of meetup group for people with similar interests and met someone there, you'd have created the circumstances for you meet by joining that meetup group.
Mmmm, the distinction is more subtle that than. For example, meeting a girl at a cafe means that I deliberately have to approach her and initiate that connection, thereby "creating the circumstances". The examples you have given, I would think, are going to take a more natural course, with genuine opportunities arising in those environments.
So, if you met a girl in class you wouldn't deliberately have to approach her or introduce yourself in order to initiate that connection? I think you do. Even if she's sitting right next to you, you still have to say something to her to establish a connection, even if it's "Did you catch which pages we're supposed to read for homework?" or "My copy of the syllabus is smudged, does that say the paper is due this Friday or next Friday?"
My point is that whether you happen to see a girl in a cafe and introduce yourself, or see a girl in class and introduce yourself, or see a girl at a gig and introduce yourself, you're still creating the circumstances for you to meet.
Speaking as someone who is WAY closer to 30 than you, take a chill pill, you've got lots of time to meet someone.
Teenaged X-Files obsession + Bermuda Triangle episode + Self-led school research project = Atheist.
Welcome back, FTR. I was starting to wonder about you since I always respected your approach.
I do not give dating advice. I'm 48, clueless, and wouldn't even know where to start. But I can tell you what I truly believe about marriage. I do not believe in "The One"; but rather, close enough. Don't misunderstand me. I'm not suggesting you settle for less. Instead, I'm suggesting that if your values are similar enough you will become like one like two dandelions that grow together. Kirst and I are two very different people and starting off it may have seemed like a mismatch. But we have always had the same values. After 26 years of marriage, we complete each other's sentences, work together with some (not perfect) harmony, and generally want to travel life's path in the same direction.
That being said, the quest for a statistically significant other can be a daunting one. I turned to Swing dancing to increase my beat rate of meeting women and also increasing my ability to talk to them without freezing up. I was extremely nervous around women and the increased exposure to women totally fixed that. I agree with your friend that you should let the girl know your intentions but only as far as saying, "I want to date you." Working the word "date" into the conversation is important because women are more than willing to make male friends and sometimes it seems that no amount of signalling will alert them to the fact that you are interested in them.
I had many unsuccessful encounters with women who were all too willing to give me there number, but totally unwilling to fuck me. So... I made sure, right after getting their number, to ask the question, "Do you mind if I ask you out on a date sometime?" Yes, it can be a bit forced but it does prevent the obnoxious time spent with a women who clearly just thinks of you as a friend. Not that I mind that, I had many female friends while I was swing dancing and it was great to be able to call any of them up to meet me at some dance venue as friends. We were there for moral support and when we met people we wanted to date we would talk about them to each other.
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