Quote:I am not Quoting from religious books am quoting from the Quran which have the highest authority

This is an atheist forum. That means we don't believe in god(s). Follow me so far?

Not believing in god(a) means we don't believe in revealed truth. A non existent being cannot write or inspire anything.That includes the Qur'an and the Hadith. The Qur'an has no authority here. You may not use it as evidence to support any argument if you wish to be taken seriously

Your assumption that your interpretation of Islam is right and we are all wrong is arrogant,ignorant and insulting.

Your position is legalistic and reveals a profound ignorance of the spirit of Islam. I'm terribly sorry,but I really can't be bothered with you.

Wa salaam

Quote:This is as atheist forums. That means we don't believe in god(s). Follow me so far?

Probably not, Pad. You may as well be speaking Chinese to him.

(May 30, 2010 at 7:57 pm)Scented Nectar Wrote:

(May 30, 2010 at 7:24 pm)mo3taz3nbar Wrote: hitting her slightly with something like a toothbrush as a warning before divorce after a year of trying to change something which is ruining the family and its not preferable to do so and muhammed (pbuh) himself never did that(u r making a big deal of this)

What is the punishment a man gets from his wife when he is lewd or flirting?

no punishment for that but if caught having sex its divorce and she dont have any financial rights except what she already own

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Quote:The "it's not islam it is the culture that is wrong" argument seems great, in theory only. Because it acknowledges that the teachings of the Qur'an and primitive misogynistic cultures are not incompatible.
If the Qur'an clearly condemned the abuses we see nowadays in the countries applying the sharia law, then no islamic country would ever condone these things. But the reality is different: the sharia is an explicitly islamic set of laws which comes from a certain (and common) interpretation of the Qur'an and the hadiths.

what i meant is that in some cultures they just look like that it have nothing to do wether they are a muslim or not. and about applying the sharia u get a ppl with agrissive culture and say those r the ones applying sharia but in fact they r doing a lot of things together sharia,culture,opression,......if u want to know wat they r doing is islamic or not see some of the verses i posted in the begining and compare it with wat they r doing so u can know where their acts came from and plz if u met anyone like that say to him only one verse of what i said he will either punch u or he will be silent dont think he will start giving u interpretations they just do wat they hear or wat they saw their fathers do

Quote:Moataz, tell me how do you know which interpretation of the Qur'an is the correct one ? How do you know which hadiths are divinely inspired ? Which scholars should I trust ? The salafi scholars ? The shi'a scholars ? The ahmadiyya scholars ? Trusting the most popular interpretation or the interpretation of the highest scholar cannot give you the truth.

ok shias,ahmedyaa or any of these islamic group have the same beliefs and the same Quran and not different interpretations of the Quran as u think but they have some acts and beliefs according to the history(not major most are about the compnions)and also some of them start following some scholars blindly and start creating new ways of prayer and staff like that and at last they are minority
about the interpretation of the Quran anyone can come and say and interpretation u should believe him?
use ur mind read what his interpretation is based on and the meaning of the words and reason and use logic(thats the way the interpretation of the companions is dont think that they write a verse and then say an order its a science and if u just know the basics u can make an opinion urself wether these interpretation is right or just helusinations)
its not the subject but u mentioned these several times so i wanted to clarify

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Quote:This is an atheist forum. That means we don't believe in god(s). Follow me so far?

Not believing in god(a) means we don't believe in revealed truth. A non existent being cannot write or inspire anything.That includes the Qur'an and the Hadith. The Qur'an has no authority here. You may not use it as evidence to support any argument if you wish to be taken seriously
Your assumption that your interpretation of Islam is right and we are all wrong is arrogant,ignorant and insulting.

at first am not proving anything am just telling u the truth about islam so ur beliefs can be based on something other than misconceptons.when using the Quran verses am just proving that this is what Islam says u not believing in it doesnt make any difference it will still says wat muslims do or wat they should do

(May 30, 2010 at 7:24 pm)mo3taz3nbar Wrote: hitting her slightly with something like a toothbrush as a warning before divorce after a year of trying to change something which is ruining the family and its not preferable to do so and muhammed (pbuh) himself never did that(u r making a big deal of this)

I'm making a big deal out of it because it's such a ridiculous notion. It is *still* a man hitting a woman; how and why does he have that right?

Also, if you have to wait a year and she is still ruining the family, what good is a toothbrush beating going to do? Why not just get a divorce with the beating?

Quote:Also, if you have to wait a year and she is still ruining the family, what good is a toothbrush beating going to do? Why not just get a divorce with the beating?

i mentioned this in my first post but i will clarify it more.its not the physical impact of the hitting as u can see if it cause even a little pain u r the bad guy not her.and as i see if u r getting a divorce its not fair to do it without a final warning.divorce is not that easy in Islam thts why there is a lot of steps u have to do before getting divorce and i see it is very wise and give u a long time to get the relation with ur wife in the right way again.some of u may still not seeing what am trying to say and i will tell u what i do in such a situation i write a little note about it and keep it in mind and during ur life u may see a situations that will make u have more understanding

Why can't this "final warning" be verbal? Or written? Why not actually sit down an talk things over instead of beating her? Honestly, do you think that a beating is really the best thing that will get her back on your side? If so, you are quite deluded about relationships...and women.

Given that you say getting a divorce is hard in Islam, does this mean that you don't follow the common procedure of saying "I divorce you" three times? Or is that another "misleading" interpretation of the Koran a well?

(May 31, 2010 at 6:55 am)Tiberius Wrote: Why can't this "final warning" be verbal? Or written? Why not actually sit down an talk things over instead of beating her? Honestly, do you think that a beating is really the best thing that will get her back on your side? If so, you are quite deluded about relationships...and women.

Given that you say getting a divorce is hard in Islam, does this mean that you don't follow the common procedure of saying "I divorce you" three times? Or is that another "misleading" interpretation of the Koran a well?

thats after the verbal warning and get me the verse about the divorce

You didn't answer my question.

Why can't the final warning be verbal? In fact, why can't all the warnings be verbal? Why do you have to resort to hitting someone to try and get your way?

As for the divorce thing, I don't have a verse, but apparently it's known as the "Triple talaq". I was asking you about it; I didn't expect you to turn the question around on me...

Quote:You didn't answer my question.

Why can't the final warning be verbal? In fact, why can't all the warnings be verbal? Why do you have to resort to hitting someone to try and get your way?

its preferred to be verbal only as i mentioned before but the last choice may in some situation get u to a solution as if u r trying a year or year and a half maybe changing the way of wat u r doing can make her know its serious and tht u r done with that and also u dont know maybe this will work in some situations

Quote:As for the divorce thing, I don't have a verse, but apparently it's known as the "Triple talaq". I was asking you about it; I didn't expect you to turn the question around on me...

i was trying to get to a point here that u must not believe whatever u hear u must search by yourself(not in this only on everything specially regarding religion and beliefs). about the divorce thing u r allowed to get divorce once in a time(u cant divorce 3 times once) and after that the divorce takes place after 4 month to become sure that she is not pregnant(as if she found she is pregnant they may get back to each other and also to make it easy if she or he want to get back together)

Apparently some women just don't learn. Right?