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October 3, 2014 at 4:27 am (This post was last modified: October 3, 2014 at 4:27 am by Aractus.)
(October 2, 2014 at 7:56 pm)radical97 Wrote:
America is not a Christian nation and was NOT founded in Christian principles whatever the hell that means. George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, James Monroe, John Quincy Adams, Andrew Jackson and Abraham Lincoln did not believe in Christianity. In fact, Jefferson, who practically wrote the whole Declaration of Independence by himself and Madison who did the same with the Constitution both despised Christianity along with other religions.
If the U.S. was founded on the Christian religion, the Constitution would clearly say so, but it does not. Nowhere does the Constitution say: "The United States is a Christian Nation", or anything even close to that. In fact, the words "Jesus Christ, Christianity, Bible, Creator, Divine, and God" are never mentioned in the Constitution; not even once.
The Declaration of Independence gives us important insight into the opinions of the Founding Fathers. Thomas Jefferson wrote that the power of the government is derived from the governed. Up until that time, it was claimed that kings ruled nations by the authority of God. The Declaration was a radical departure from the idea that the power to rule over other people comes from god. It was a letter from the Colonies to the English King, stating their intentions to seperate themselves. The Declaration is not a governing document. It mentions "Nature's God" and "Divine Providence"-- but as you will soon see, that's the language of Deism, not Christianity.
The 1796 Treaty with Tripoli states that the United States was "not in any sense founded on the Christian religion". This was not an idle statement meant to satisfy muslims-- they believed it and meant it. This treaty was written under the presidency of George Washington and signed under the presidency of John Adams.
"The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity. Nowhere in the Gospels do we find a precept for Creeds, Confessions, Oaths, Doctrines, and whole cartloads of other foolish trumpery that we find in Christianity."
"This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it."
JOHN ADAMS
“I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity* one redeeming feature. They are all alike, founded upon fables and mythologies.” Thomas Jefferson * /Some variations of this quote may have: [Christianity]
"As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?"
John Adams - letter to F.A. Van der Kamp, Dec. 27, 1816
Um, so what? The British empire from which it came certainly was. Despite Cromwell's repeated attempts at establishing a purely secular republic government, they failed and in 1660 the Christian monarchy was restored, and that is the government which still stands today and the one from which America was established which then in 1776 declared independence from Britain. Before this, however, the USA was founded by the British and hence Christian monarchy.
For Religion & Health see:[/b][/size] Williams & Sternthal. (2007). Spirituality, religion and health: Evidence and research directions. Med. J. Aust., 186(10), S47-S50.-LINK
The WIN/Gallup End of Year Survey 2013 found the US was perceived to be the greatest threat to world peace by a huge margin, with 24% of respondents fearful of the US followed by: 8% for Pakistan, and 6% for China. This was followed by 5% each for: Afghanistan, Iran, Israel, North Korea.-LINK
"That's disgusting. There were clean athletes out there that have had their whole careers ruined by people like Lance Armstrong who just bended thoughts to fit their circumstances. He didn't look up cheating because he wanted to stop, he wanted to justify what he was doing and to keep that continuing on." - Nicole Cooke
(October 3, 2014 at 4:27 am)Aractus Wrote: Um, so what? The British empire from which it came certainly was. Despite Cromwell's repeated attempts at establishing a purely secular republic government, they failed and in 1660 the Christian monarchy was restored, and that is the government which still stands today and the one from which America was established which then in 1776 declared independence from Britain. Before this, however, the USA was founded by the British and hence Christian monarchy.
Um, so what? The Constitution establishes a secular government based on Enlightenment principles.
Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
Correct, but before that it was originally founded as a British state and hence a Christian state.
For Religion & Health see:[/b][/size] Williams & Sternthal. (2007). Spirituality, religion and health: Evidence and research directions. Med. J. Aust., 186(10), S47-S50.-LINK
The WIN/Gallup End of Year Survey 2013 found the US was perceived to be the greatest threat to world peace by a huge margin, with 24% of respondents fearful of the US followed by: 8% for Pakistan, and 6% for China. This was followed by 5% each for: Afghanistan, Iran, Israel, North Korea.-LINK
"That's disgusting. There were clean athletes out there that have had their whole careers ruined by people like Lance Armstrong who just bended thoughts to fit their circumstances. He didn't look up cheating because he wanted to stop, he wanted to justify what he was doing and to keep that continuing on." - Nicole Cooke
October 3, 2014 at 7:37 am (This post was last modified: October 3, 2014 at 8:29 am by Drich.)
(October 3, 2014 at 12:50 am)genkaus Wrote:
(October 2, 2014 at 10:26 pm)Drich Wrote: Educate yourself with something besides that 'I hate God 'propaganda mini is drawn to. Something like a legit historical source material. Otherwise some one like me who wants nothing more than to make new members look the fool for not fact checking their anti God propaganda they get themselves worked up on will feed it back to you.
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Referencing the site above the only president that did not affiliate himself with some form of Christianity is Monroe.
That is why we are referred to as a Christian nation.
You should have stopped after giving evidence for religious affiliations of founding fathers. Their religious affiliation does not make your country a Christian nation. Concluding that it does makes you look like a fool.
Your objection is with the op as the op established this fact, I simply defended the truth of the faith of the men that kicked your grandfathers wooden teeth in.
(October 3, 2014 at 12:54 am)Minimalist Wrote:
Quote:That is why we are referred to as a Christian nation.
Only by fucking ignorant dickheads like you, drippy.
Remember:
Quote:Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch toward uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one-half the world fools and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth.
-- Thomas Jefferson,
Jefferson had you jesus freak assholes nailed.
Jefferson like I, seperate Christianity/Belief in God from the works of religion.
With the help of Richard Price, a Unitarian minister in London, and Joseph Priestly, an English scientist-clergyman who emigrated to America in 1794, Jefferson eventually arrived at some positive assertions of his private religion. His ideas are nowhere better expressed than in his compilations of extracts from the New Testament "The Philosophy of Jesus" (1804) and "The Life and Morals of Jesus" (1819-20?). The former stems from his concern with the problem of maintaining social harmony in a republican nation. The latter is a multilingual collection of verses that was a product of his private search for religious truth. Jefferson believed in the existence of a Supreme Being who was the creator and sustainer of the universe and the ultimate ground of being, but this was not the triune deity of orthodox Christianity. He also rejected the idea of the divinity of Christ, but as he writes to William Short on October 31, 1819, he was convinced that the fragmentary teachings of Jesus constituted the "outlines of a system of the most sublime morality which has ever fallen from the lips of man." In correspondence, he sometimes expressed confidence that the whole country would be Unitarian[3], but he recognized the novelty of his own religious beliefs. On June 25, 1819, he wrote to Ezra Stiles Ely, "I am of a sect by myself, as far as I know." http://www.monticello.org/site/research-...us-beliefs
You guys are idots for trying to change history when it is so blantly avaiable to anyone looking for the truth.
Most people that I have heard refer to the US as a Christian nation mean that it was founded by Christians and upon Christian values. I would not doubt that they believe that there is distinct language to that effect in the founding documents because the phrase "Christian nation" in that context would imply it. Those are usually the same people who want the ten commandments plastered on every wall and creation taught as a science and gays and illegals catapulted into Mexico (or the Pacific Ocean).
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
(October 2, 2014 at 10:26 pm)Drich Wrote: That is why we are referred to as a Christian nation.
If that's the criteria you're going by, then America is also a Male Nation, a White Nation, a Dead Person Nation, and a Pants Wearing Nation, among many other things. I doubt you'd ever agree out loud to the first two, and the last two should demonstrate how devoid of meaning your definition of a "Christian Nation" actually is.
But then, what you mean isn't what the people arguing for a christian nation generally mean when they do so in a political context, is it? You're either trying to win cheap rhetorical points by contracting the definition into something manageable so you can get one over on the atheists and accuse them of hating god (yawn ) or you're equivocating.
Which is it?
again it/my response is answering the op's claim that the forefathers of this nation were atheist. Therefore this country was not founded as a Christian Nation. My response is to support the truth that the forefathers were indeed Christian by proclaimation, and by work and deed.
) or you're equivocating. 
