Discovery of cave painting in Indonesia contemporaneous with earliest cave painting in Europe cast doubt on the supposition that HSS evolved cognitive ability for representational art after leaving Africa, and that representational art first arose in the branch of HSS that went into Europe.

cave art in Indonesia suggests the common ancestors of HSS who went to Asia and HSS who went to Europe, ie the first HSS to leave Africa, already had the faculty to make representation art. So this faculty likely developed in Africa, before the HSS migration out of africa.

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-29415716

I'd be surprised if the other hominid species didn't also engage in art, as well.

(October 9, 2014 at 11:21 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: I'd be surprised if the other hominid species didn't also engage in art, as well.

There is debate over whether some of the earliest cave art in Europe, attributed to HSS, might not in fact be the work of Neanderthals. They certainly date to a period when neanderthals were still around in the area.

Oh, I know. I tend to think that Neanderthals contributed to some of what we think of as HSS culture. There's evidence showing that they had a high capacity for abstract thought.

Jared diamonds book The Third Chimpanzee talks about how art might have evolved in other animals - specifically in a kind of bird that builds elaborate and beautiful displays as part of its mating ritual. With this in mind it's very possible that our ancestors engaged in type of art that wouldn't have preserved for maybe hundreds of thousands of years. Probably not large nest-like art displays but who knows what our ancient ancestors mating rituals involved?

Cool.

(October 9, 2014 at 10:58 pm)Clueless Morgan Wrote: Jared diamonds book The Third Chimpanzee talks about how art might have evolved in other animals - specifically in a kind of bird that builds elaborate and beautiful displays as part of its mating ritual. With this in mind it's very possible that our ancestors engaged in type of art that wouldn't have preserved for maybe hundreds of thousands of years. Probably not large nest-like art displays but who knows what our ancient ancestors mating rituals involved?

Cool.

The difference is mating display is not thought to be representational.

(October 9, 2014 at 11:48 pm)Chuck Wrote:

(October 9, 2014 at 10:58 pm)Clueless Morgan Wrote: Jared diamonds book The Third Chimpanzee talks about how art might have evolved in other animals - specifically in a kind of bird that builds elaborate and beautiful displays as part of its mating ritual. With this in mind it's very possible that our ancestors engaged in type of art that wouldn't have preserved for maybe hundreds of thousands of years. Probably not large nest-like art displays but who knows what our ancient ancestors mating rituals involved?

Cool.

The difference is mating display is not thought to be representational.

Certainly, good point.

the Third Chimpanzee looks at aspects of human behavior that we claim to be unique to humans and art is one of them ( he also mentions drug use and how some animals seem to engage in i as well). So while, yes, these birds don't seem to be engaging in representational art, they seem to be engaging in something that could have been a precursor to representational art which is what humans developed. Seeing this kind of activity in birds, I'm not surprised that human ancestors may have developed art earlier than we might have thought.

It also raises the question of whether art especially representational art is the kind of thing that would only be invented once, or whether it was inherently useful enough that it would develop in several disparate tribes independently.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Neanderthals were capable of art in some form, but the fact that their tool development shows only small advancement over long stretches of time seems to oppose that.

Don't pat yourself on the back too hard!



http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn24...Dd55RZBp44

Quote:Two Stone Age humans watch intently as their teacher works on a fragment of rib. With a final flourish the tool is complete, and one student moves in for a closer look. Communication is difficult in the absence of a common language. "Now you try," gestures the Neanderthal teacher.

The scene may not be as far-fetched as it might seem. A team of archaeologists has found evidence to suggest that Neanderthals were the first to produce a type of specialised bone tool, still used in some modern cultures today. The find is the best evidence yet that we may have – on rare occasions – learned a trick or two from our extinct cousins.