Surah 18:86

Quote:18:86 Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness."

Well, Rev it looks like they tried to do a quick fix on the mud thing...in the usual way. Just change the translation but it still seems to cast grave doubts on mohammed's assertion that there is anything scientific in this pile of shit.

plz guys lets discuss each verse in its own in the verse i quoted god is talking about that the universe was smoke at the begining how could someone know that from 1400 years?

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@Rev. Rye most of what you posted is translation problems if you want to discuss this open a thread for it or wait untill i get to it

(July 5, 2010 at 1:10 pm)mo3taz3nbar Wrote: 1-the universe started as a smoke(hot gas):

“Moreover He comprehended in His design the sky, and it had been (as) smoke……”(Quran 41:11)

http://www.physorg.com/news136736690.html

the word used in arabic is (dukhan) which means hot gas

You're an idiot...

Gas is a state of matter

Smoke is loosely dispensed solid particles floating inside of a gas.

They are not the same things.

And the beginning of the universe was not a gas either, it was a plasma, which is no longer considered a gas, or really either a gas-like substance due to it's unique behaviour, mostly due to it's ability to be warped by a magnetic field into structures and filaments (such as lasers).

(July 6, 2010 at 3:27 am)theVOID Wrote:

(July 5, 2010 at 1:10 pm)mo3taz3nbar Wrote: 1-the universe started as a smoke(hot gas):

“Moreover He comprehended in His design the sky, and it had been (as) smoke……”(Quran 41:11)

http://www.physorg.com/news136736690.html

the word used in arabic is (dukhan) which means hot gas

You're an idiot...

Gas is a state of matter

Smoke is loosely dispensed solid particles floating inside of a gas.

They are not the same things.

And the beginning of the universe was not a gas either, it was a plasma, which is no longer considered a gas, or really either a gas-like substance due to it's unique behaviour, mostly due to it's ability to be warped by a magnetic field into structures and filaments (such as lasers).

the word gas wasnt invented from 1400 years so the word smoke or (dukhan) is the general state of any matter that is not liquid or solid

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(July 5, 2010 at 4:18 pm)Darwinian Wrote: If this is one of the reasons that made you believe the Qu'ran is true then I think I'm going to have to redefine the word gullible!!

there is a lot things mentioned in the Quran from 1400 years and later confirmed by scientists to be true what you have to do is to check wether the information is right or not and see the probability of getting this information by chance or by any other way

(July 6, 2010 at 3:01 am)mo3taz3nbar Wrote: plz guys lets discuss each verse in its own in the verse i quoted god is talking about that the universe was smoke at the begining how could someone know that from 1400 years?

Ok, here's my addition to this discussion:

1) The universe wasn't smoke at the beginning.
2) That is all.

(July 6, 2010 at 3:38 am)mo3taz3nbar Wrote: the word gas wasnt invented from 1400 years so the word smoke or (dukhan) is the general state of any matter that is not liquid or solid

1. The date at which the word Gas was used is irrelevant. Prior to the use of the word gas it was simply referred to as 'Air' and it was all believed to be the same thing, prior to the discovery that 'Air' is composed of various gasses in different proportions.

2. Smoke is not the same as Gas, or Air as it would have been called, so for Allah to claim that the universe started out as Smoke just proves how bullshit this whole argument is.

3. The universe did not start as a Gas anyway, it was a Plasma, there is a very specific difference. So even if Allah had known the difference between smoke (a dispersed solid) and Gas, he still would have been wrong.

Quote:there is a lot things mentioned in the Quran from 1400 years and later confirmed by scientists to be true what you have to do is to check wether the information is right or not and see the probability of getting this information by chance or by any other way

The Summerians, who pre-date Mohummad, thought the stars must have been very hot, and science didn't know that the stars were burning gas until over 4000 years later, so this is proof that the numerous summerian gods are all real! How else would they guess the stars were hot?

(July 6, 2010 at 4:02 am)Tiberius Wrote:

(July 6, 2010 at 3:01 am)mo3taz3nbar Wrote: plz guys lets discuss each verse in its own in the verse i quoted god is talking about that the universe was smoke at the begining how could someone know that from 1400 years?

Ok, here's my addition to this discussion:

1) The universe wasn't smoke at the beginning.
2) That is all.

plz get the link that says that the universe wasnt in the state of gas in the begining i provided a link proving what i say

(July 6, 2010 at 4:06 am)mo3taz3nbar Wrote: plz get the link that says that the universe wasnt in the state of gas in the begining i provided a link proving what i say

The early universe was thought to consist of a quark-gluon plasma, a liquid like state of matter existing at temperatures of +4000 deg C

"researchers found that instead of behaving like a gas of free quarks, antiquarks and gluons as expected, the matter behaves more like a liquid"

http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/22043
http://www.physicsforums.com/blog.php?b=1723
http://public.web.cern.ch/public/en/scie...se-en.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quark%E2%80%93gluon_plasma
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Big_Bang
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topi...uon-plasma
http://preposterousuniverse.com/writings...early.html
http://arxiv.org/pdf/hep-ph/0312227

(July 6, 2010 at 4:04 am)theVOID Wrote: The Summerians, who pre-date Mohummad, thought the stars must have been very hot, and science didn't know that the stars were burning gas until over 4000 years later, so this is proof that the numerous summerian gods are all real! How else would they guess the stars were hot?

*Sorry guys but a quick interjection...

The Sumerians predate Muhammad....yes??

So mo3 all your Qua-ran can claim (with any logical veracity) is that it is just a rehash of an older religion / belief system as understood by a goat herder (aka a simple man with no education) in the Arabian Deserts:.....
just like the Torah.

Thanks guys.

@ the void
they thought that in 2005 but this is in 2010

Quote:Instead of behaving like a perfect gas, in which every quark goes its own way independent of the others, the plasma seemed to act like a liquid. “It was a very big surprise,” Dr. Vigdor said, when it was discovered in 2005. Since then, however, theorists have revisited their calculations and found that the quark soup can be either a liquid or a gas, depending on the temperature


It is now thought that the plasma would have to be a million times more energetic to become a perfect gas. That is beyond the reach of any conceivable laboratory experiment, but the experiments colliding lead nuclei in the Large Hadron Collider outside Geneva next winter should reach energies high enough to see some evolution from a liquid to a gas.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/16/scienc....html?_r=1

if they discovered that the quark-gluon plasma is a fourth state of matter it is also considered (dukhan) which as i mentioned before its a general word that refers to any state of matter that is not liquid or solid