(November 4, 2014 at 3:18 pm)dimaniac Wrote:

Quote:Creationism has no place in science class.

Then why should creationists pay taxes to support schools?

So their kids don't grow up to be morons.

(November 4, 2014 at 3:37 pm)dimaniac Wrote:

(November 4, 2014 at 3:28 pm)Beccs Wrote: Evolution is SCIENCE and belongs in science classes

Creationism is a religious claims that is NOT science and doesn't belong in science class.

Is that clear enough for you?

Why should there be science class?(Except for those who want to become scientists)

Are you even a real person or a trollbot? I can't remember ever having read anything so profoundly ignorant.

There's no way you're serious.

ill put this here this is one of the stupidest creationist argument i have ever read and i disagreed with it.
This person is so very ignorant it amazes me how this person is that stupid.

Ex-Evolutionist, Plant geneticist Dr John Sanford, and co-inventor of the 'gene-gun' when at Cornell University in 1980 as a research scientist, co-developer of the “Mendel’s Accountant”, a computer analytical tool for genetic systems, and author of 'Genetic Entropy and the Mystery of the Genome' openly said the following in an interview with Don Batten:
‘I was totally sold on evolution. It was my religion; it defined how I saw everything, it was my value system and my reason for being. Later, I came to believe in “God”, but this still did not significantly change my intellectual outlook regarding origins. However, still later, as I began to personally know and submit to Jesus, I started to be fundamentally changed—in every respect. This included my mind, and how I viewed science and history. I would not say that science led me to the Lord (which is the experience of some). Rather I would say Jesus opened my eyes to ... creation—I was blind, and gradually I could see. It sounds simple, but it was a slow and painful process. I still only see “as through a glass, darkly” [1 Cor. 13:12]. But I see so much more than I could before!

‘On a personal level this was a time of spiritual awakening, but professionally I remained “in the closet”. I did not feel I could defend my faith in an academic setting. So I felt the need to take temporary leave from academia and institutional science because of the tension I felt in this regard, and the enormous potential hostility I sensed from my academic colleagues.

‘I think the academic environment is very hostile to the very idea of a living and active God, making it almost impossible for a genuine Christian to feel open or welcome. I needed some distance from academia to get a hold of my own beliefs and why I hold them. I feel I have now grown to the point where I can re-enter institutional academia (to the extent that I am not expelled), without compromising my basic Christian beliefs.’

‘Institutional science has systematically “evolutionized” every aspect of human thought. Contrary to popular thinking, this is not because evolution is central to all human understanding, but rather has arisen due to a primarily political and ideological process. Consequently, in the present intellectual climate, to reject evolutionary theory has the appearance of rejecting science itself. This is totally upside down.

‘An axiomatic statement often repeated by biologists is: “Nothing makes sense in biology, except in the light of evolution”. However, nothing could be further from the truth! I believe that apart from ideology, the truth is exactly the opposite: “Nothing makes sense in biology except in the light of design”.

‘We cannot really explain how any biological system might have “evolved”, but we can all see that virtually everything we look at has extraordinary underlying design.

‘I am not aware of any type of operational science (computer science, transportation, medicine, agriculture, engineering, etc.), which has benefited from evolutionary theory. But after the fact, real advances in science are systematically given an evolutionary spin. This reflects the pervasive politicization of science.’

‘Mutations are word-processing errors in the cell’s instruction manual. Mutations systematically destroy genetic information—even as word processing errors destroy written information. While there are some rare beneficial mutations (even as there are rare beneficial misspellings), bad mutations outnumber them—perhaps by a million to one. So even allowing for beneficial mutations, the net effect of mutation is overwhelmingly deleterious. The more the mutations, the less the information. This is fundamental to the mutation process.’

‘Additionally, very rarely a beneficial mutation arises that has enough effect to be selected for—resulting in some adaptive variation, or some degree of fine-tuning. This also helps slow degeneration. But selection only eliminates a very small fraction of the bad mutations. The overwhelming majority of bad mutations accumulate relentlessly, being much too subtle—of too small an effect—to significantly affect their persistence. On the flip side, almost all beneficials (to the extent they occur) are immune to the selective process—because they invariably cause only tiny increases in biological functionality.

‘So most beneficials drift out of the population and are lost—even in the presence of intense selection. This raises the question—since most information-bearing nucleotides [DNA ‘letters’] make an infinitesimally small contribution to the genome—how did they get there, and how do they stay there through “deep time”?

‘Selection slows mutational degeneration, but does not even begin to actually stop it. So even with intense selection, evolution is going the wrong way—toward extinction!’

‘My recent book resulted from many years of intense study. This involved a complete re-evaluation of everything I thought I knew about evolutionary genetic theory. It systematically examines the problems underlying classic neo-Darwinian theory. The bottom line is that Darwinian theory fails on every level. It fails because: 1) mutations arise faster than selection can eliminate them; 2) mutations are overwhelmingly too subtle to be “selectable”; 3) “biological noise” and “survival of the luckiest” overwhelm selection; 4) bad mutations are physically linked to good mutations, so that they cannot be separated in inheritance (to get rid of the bad and keep the good). The result is that all higher genomes must clearly degenerate. This is exactly what we would expect in light of Scripture—with the Fall—and is consistent with the declining life expectancies after the Flood that the Bible records.’

‘The problem of genetic entropy (genomes are all degenerating), is powerful evidence that life and mankind must be young. Genetic entropy is probably also the fundamental underlying mechanism explaining the extinction process. Extinctions in the past and in the present can best be understood, not in terms of environmental change, but in terms of mutation accumulation. All this is consistent with a miraculous beginning, a young earth, and a perishing earth—which “will wear out like a garment” (Hebrews 1:11). Only the touch of the Creator can make all things new.

(November 4, 2014 at 3:37 pm)dimaniac Wrote: Why should there be science class?(Except for those who want to become scientists)

So that people at least have a basic understanding of the real world instead of the fictional one as portrayed in the bible. Of course, ignorant theistitards still seem to either not pay attention in science class or they convolute everything for the sake of being stubborn for their fallible faith.

Wait for it!

His next question will be, why people should learn to read and write.

(November 4, 2014 at 3:37 pm)dimaniac Wrote:

(November 4, 2014 at 3:28 pm)Beccs Wrote: Evolution is SCIENCE and belongs in science classes

Creationism is a religious claims that is NOT science and doesn't belong in science class.

Is that clear enough for you?

Why should there be science class?(Except for those who want to become scientists)

Why should there be maths classes except for those who want to become mathematicians?
Why should there be English classes except for those who want to become writers?
Why should there be history classes except for those who wish to become historians?

Once again you're demonstrating the standard response of the creationist and reinforcing the whole point of this thread.

Knowledge - all knowledge - is important and many of the religiously indoctrinated fear knowledge.

all i am is really trying too say here is yes creationism is bullshit but they will complain why it isn't being taught as fact.
science teaches you for fact and verbatim that yes we are just evolve primates the end and that creationism is bullshit.
i only say teach both because 1 of them is going to sound really stupid while the other is going sound more plausible I.E.
Evolution is always right.

(November 4, 2014 at 3:18 pm)dimaniac Wrote: Then why should creationists pay taxes to support schools?

When you or a loved one goes to a doctor for a serious health problem, don't you want that person to have the best science background possible?

Don't you want those designing your planes, cars, bridges, buildings, etc to base their designs on science?

You use the gifts of science many times a day, every day of your life, and you have the gall to ask why you should pay taxes for the education that gives you those gifts?

Moron....

(November 4, 2014 at 3:53 pm)Simon Moon Wrote:

(November 4, 2014 at 3:18 pm)dimaniac Wrote: Then why should creationists pay taxes to support schools?

When you or a loved one goes to a doctor for a serious health problem, don't you want that person to have the best science background possible?

Don't you want those designing you planes, cars, bridges, buildings, etc to base their designs on science?

You use the gifts of science many times a day, every day of your life, and you have the gall to ask why you should pay taxes for the education that gives you those gifts?

Moron....

Like the same family who prayed for 2 of their kids to get better and they both died when there is advance medication and doctors on call they prayed and they are rotting in jail they deserve they are fucking idiots.

(November 4, 2014 at 3:57 pm)dyresand Wrote:

(November 4, 2014 at 3:53 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: When you or a loved one goes to a doctor for a serious health problem, don't you want that person to have the best science background possible?

Don't you want those designing you planes, cars, bridges, buildings, etc to base their designs on science?

You use the gifts of science many times a day, every day of your life, and you have the gall to ask why you should pay taxes for the education that gives you those gifts?

Moron....

Like the same family who prayed for 2 of their kids to get better and they both died when there is advance medication and doctors on call they prayed and they are rotting in jail they deserve they are fucking idiots.

I'll tell you a story which I've mentioned before.

When I was a student and working in a hospital to pay the bills and get experience, a young guy 17 or 18 was brought into the emergency room after a serious car accident.

Many doctors and nurses worked on him for hours and he went through a lot of blood products.

In the end he was stabilised and survived.

The parents were interviewed on the local TV and they thanked god for their son's survival. No mention of the highly trained medical staff at all.