(November 9, 2014 at 10:39 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote:

(November 9, 2014 at 10:34 pm)LostDays Wrote: I don't want to sit around and wait for the dreaded phone call that something awful happened to her. She pretends nothing is wrong when authority figures, and therapists come around... She also suffers from Asperger syndrome and I am really concerned. We have tried many things.. that is why I keep coming back to these 'stupid questions' I guess as someone called them... because I'm hoping if I hear the right answer.. I can say something to her that will change her mind for good, and be able to help her realize that life is worth living.

That's the thing, though, darlin'... to a major depressive (I'm talking from experience), the will to survive isn't as strong as it is to someone who isn't mentally ill. You're not going to get "the right answer" because there isn't one. If there were, we wouldn't ever have to deal with suicide. I pretend nothing is wrong too, but it always is. I can't help it, and I would wager, neither can she. All you can do is be there when she calls, maybe suggest therapy and meds, and hope she continues to survive for whatever reasons she hasn't ended it yet.

I'm sorry to break bad news to you... I truly am; but dealing with depressed people isn't easy. Just try to be a reason for her to survive, but know that if you can't, it's not your fault.

As crazy as I probably sound, I really hope there comes a day where not so many people are depressed, anxious and suicidal. I hope we can continue to develop programs that really help people. I hope that people with mental health issues eventually one day get all the same rights and treatment as everyone else.

I'm not sure how many of you are familiar but I am working at a health care centre right now that is teaching a form of therapy called Dialectical Behavioral Therapy.. and the skills in the program have proven to be very useful for a few specific diagnoses.. but we are hoping to make the program available to everyone eventually. I come on websites like these to study people, their responses, and then see what I can take back with me and apply it to the program to make it more effective for people.

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So as stupid as some of the question may seem to come across.. I honestly hope to make a difference due to the things you guys have to say.

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(November 9, 2014 at 10:49 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote:

(November 9, 2014 at 10:40 pm)LostDays Wrote: She just said she feels drained, she feels like she just survives in order to prevent more heartache to her Mom, me, and the rest of the family members.. just like Rebecca said.. same thing for my cousin. I don't feel like I could live with myself if something ever happened to her and I didn't feel like I did everything in my power to help her.

(bold mine)

You are doing everything in your power, believe me. You just can't have much of it in a situation such as this. Again, I'm sorry

I really appreciate that a lot! It is really good to know I am doing all the right things, you guys are definitely helping to keep my guilt at bay.. I guess I feel more responsible for her because I am in the mental health field and I am so close to her! I feel like its my obligation to help my family and others! Very tough work, but nothing more rewarding.

(November 9, 2014 at 10:50 pm)LostDays Wrote: As crazy as I probably sound, I really hope there comes a day where not so many people are depressed, anxious and suicidal. I hope we can continue to develop programs that really help people. I hope that people with mental health issues eventually one day get all the same rights and treatment as everyone else.

I hope so, too. It would be really nice to be inside a healthier head.

Quote:I'm not sure how many of you are familiar but I am working at a health care centre right now that is teaching a form of therapy called Dialectical Behavioral Therapy.. and the skills in the program have proven to be very useful for a few specific diagnoses.. but we are hoping to make the program available to everyone eventually. I come on websites like these to study people, their responses, and then see what I can take back with me and apply it to the program to make it more effective for people.

Thank you for doing that. It's really important work.

Quote:So as stupid as some of the question may seem to come across.. I honestly hope to make a difference due to the things you guys have to say.

I don't think your questions are stupid at all. Maybe a little naive, but definitely not stupid... and I'm glad you're asking them if the answers are educational to you.

I assume this has already been said, but I don't want to read 5 pages of sad lamentations to say it again.

While there are plenty of philosophical reasons to choose death, or not to see the sustenance of life as objectively important, it's clearly not a normal way of thinking. It's abnormal, and if it extends it either means there is something intrinsically wrong with her life (she's gay living in a pastor's family or something), or there is something wrong with her brain functioning. Trying to convince her that life is worth living if her brain is constantly punishing her existence will be totally hopeless-- she needs meds, and that's pretty much that. And if her meds don't work, she needs drugs. And if she won't take any of them, then you have to have her committed.

(November 9, 2014 at 10:50 pm)LostDays Wrote:

(November 9, 2014 at 10:39 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote: That's the thing, though, darlin'... to a major depressive (I'm talking from experience), the will to survive isn't as strong as it is to someone who isn't mentally ill. You're not going to get "the right answer" because there isn't one. If there were, we wouldn't ever have to deal with suicide. I pretend nothing is wrong too, but it always is. I can't help it, and I would wager, neither can she. All you can do is be there when she calls, maybe suggest therapy and meds, and hope she continues to survive for whatever reasons she hasn't ended it yet.

I'm sorry to break bad news to you... I truly am; but dealing with depressed people isn't easy. Just try to be a reason for her to survive, but know that if you can't, it's not your fault.

As crazy as I probably sound, I really hope there comes a day where not so many people are depressed, anxious and suicidal. I hope we can continue to develop programs that really help people. I hope that people with mental health issues eventually one day get all the same rights and treatment as everyone else.

I'm not sure how many of you are familiar but I am working at a health care centre right now that is teaching a form of therapy called Dialectical Behavioral Therapy.. and the skills in the program have proven to be very useful for a few specific diagnoses.. but we are hoping to make the program available to everyone eventually. I come on websites like these to study people, their responses, and then see what I can take back with me and apply it to the program to make it more effective for people.

---

So as stupid as some of the question may seem to come across.. I honestly hope to make a difference due to the things you guys have to say.

---

(November 9, 2014 at 10:49 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote: (bold mine)

You are doing everything in your power, believe me. You just can't have much of it in a situation such as this. Again, I'm sorry

I really appreciate that a lot! It is really good to know I am doing all the right things, you guys are definitely helping to keep my guilt at bay.. I guess I feel more responsible for her because I am in the mental health field and I am so close to her! I feel like its my obligation to help my family and others! Very tough work, but nothing more rewarding.

Of course you feel that way, but remember: there are reasons mental health professionals rarely treat their own families.

(November 9, 2014 at 10:57 pm)bennyboy Wrote: I assume this has already been said, but I don't want to read 5 pages of sad lamentations to say it again.

While there are plenty of philosophical reasons to choose death, or not to see the sustenance of life as objectively important, it's clearly not a normal way of thinking. It's abnormal, and if it extends it either means there is something intrinsically wrong with her life (she's gay living in a pastor's family or something), or there is something wrong with her brain functioning. Trying to convince her that life is worth living if her brain is constantly punishing her existence will be totally hopeless-- she needs meds, and that's pretty much that. And if her meds don't work, she needs drugs. And if she won't take any of them, then you have to have her committed.

Would you believe out of all the Psychiatrists that work on my unit.. none of them can all agree on medication effectiveness!!! It actually makes me really mad... some patients receive medication while others don't and I don't agree with that at all.

I doubt that blanketing the floor with meds would help much (and clearly so do the psychs). Even if they -did- all agree on the effectiveness of meds it's unlikely that they would also all agree on the relative usefulness of meds in each and every patient's case, and whether or not they are appropriate. What is it that you disagree with about giving patients individualized care? If I said, for example, that maybe they ought to just put anti-depressants in the water where you work, what sorts of issues would you have with that?

(November 9, 2014 at 11:05 pm)LostDays Wrote: Would you believe out of all the Psychiatrists that work on my unit.. none of them can all agree on medication effectiveness!!! It actually makes me really mad... some patients receive medication while others don't and I don't agree with that at all.

Yes, it's a dangerous game, and there are many pitfalls on both sides. Some doctors are far too willing (may I say eager?) to medicate at the first sign of discomfort; they ignore the philosophical implications to the self of radically changing one's outlook. What constitutes saving someone, and what constitutes killing their essence and replacing it with a happy non-individual?

On the other hand, free-thinking people are free to hold negative ideas, and may not have the faculties required to overcome powerful negative emotions (or lack of emotion) that could lead to self-harm.

On one hand, depressed people sometimes grow out of it, or find social circles (like churches, cults, or NGOs helping African children) that give them a focal point that makes life feel meaning again. On the other hand, some people, no matter how hard everyone around them tries, end up committing suicide, and leaving their loved ones with a life of guilt.

Balancing liberty, mental stability, the individual and the group isn't necessarily a medical decision-- but it's a moral decision over which doctors end up (because of the right of prescription) having a lot of control.

(November 10, 2014 at 10:25 am)Rhythm Wrote: I doubt that blanketing the floor with meds would help much (and clearly so do the psychs). Even if they -did- all agree on the effectiveness of meds it's unlikely that they would also all agree on the relative usefulness of meds in each and every patient's case, and whether or not they are appropriate. What is it that you disagree with about giving patients individualized care? If I said, for example, that maybe they ought to just put anti-depressants in the water where you work, what sorts of issues would you have with that?

That isn't what I said... I work on a unit with a bunch of doctors who continually disagree with one another all the time. We had a patient leave our clinic to seek treatment elsewhere because she did not receive proper treatments... You need to have consistency... especially considering my unit only deals with people who all have the same illnesses. Evidence shows how effective medication and therapy are in combination with each other... Everyone is different but why completely deny someone the option to try medication?! Everyone deserves to discover all their options so they can also have a say in their treatment because no one knows better than the patients themselves. Point blank.

You think so? Then why see a doctor? Why not just have Bubba stay home and self medicate? I think that in this particular arena, the doctor knows better than the patient. You could "have a say" with the pilot on your next flight, if you like, I suppose? I find it gigglesome how often we seem to think we know treatment better than a doctor..meanwhile there aren't too many of us willing to push the pilot aside and land a 727.

(November 10, 2014 at 7:18 pm)Rhythm Wrote: You think so? Then why see a doctor? Why not just have Bubba stay home and self medicate? I think that in this particular arena, the doctor knows better than the patient. You could "have a say" with the pilot on your next flight, if you like, I suppose? I find it gigglesome how often we seem to think we know treatment better than a doctor..meanwhile there aren't too many of us willing to push the pilot aside and land a 727.

In this arena - the patient knows *how he feels* better than the doctor. There's no objective lab tests, no diagnostic equipment to peer into the patient's psyche. It's all very subjective. I may be mistaken, but that may have been what LostDays was referring to.