(December 1, 2014 at 10:01 pm)Losty Wrote: Feeling joy when you believe a person will live in eternal torment is pretty disgusting, but...I don't know. I don't think it necessarily makes a person bad. For one, it's the internet so we don't really know how they truly feel or if they're just trolling professionally.

Or, pretty fun, which torture and such affiliated can indeed be. I wouldn't hate someone for having a power trip... I certainly wouldn't call them 'evil' or 'bad' just for their humanity, else I'd have to drop the whole world in the trash bin.

I've got the trash biiiin in my hands, blah... and stuff.

Quote:Then, more importantly, if they've been raised in this environment and taught that this is right from birth what more can we expect from them. I mean, imagine that you believe that god is this wonderful amazing deity who deserves to be showered in worship. Imagine you honestly believe that tormenting people who ridicule this god will please the god immensely. No worldly things should please you more than pleasing this god.

Or, delusions in general. Some people aren't 'bad', per say... that's just the way they break this time. So, maybe they're bad today, good tomorrow, and here to stay...

Or, we could kill them off for whoever they were yesterday. But that could get ugly (well, that's what they say, anyway).

Quote:I guess I think that taking pleasure in the thought of sinners going to a real biblical hell is more a sign of a bad upbringing and a weak mind than a bad person.

Why does it have to be a weak mind? Smart people believe their faiths all the stronger, since they can do that thing where they justify their beliefs and stuff.

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(December 2, 2014 at 8:56 am)whateverist Wrote: You're over thinking this, people. It's the hat color. White makes you the Lone Ranger, black makes you Darth Vader.

And the eye colour betrays their favorite ice cream! Vanilla vanilla wouldn't be so lucrative if there weren't so many brown eyed people! NAPOLEON LOVERS UNITE!

(December 1, 2014 at 9:35 pm)Losty Wrote: Do you think there's a difference between a bad person and just a person who does bad things?

I think that "bad people" are very rare. People who do bad things can be quite common, depending on how you define a "bad thing." Many of those are bound to be context-dependent. Lying to a spouse about a bank withdrawal because you don't want them to know about their present may not be seen as bad. Lying to a spouse to cover a gambling addiction probably would.

Categorizing people as bad is probably a function of one of our mental coping mechanisms: we will often define a person by a trait that is only part (sometimes a small part) of their personality until/unless we get to know them better. Even after getting to know them, that trait may still define them in our mind. "Oh, that's Tom. He's Bob's friend" or "Oh, that's Bob's friend, the cop." "That's Betty's niece, she plays the piano." And so on.

The "bad person" designation may be our way of coping with someone we don't know well, and that we do not want to know well, or that we do not want others to get close to. We don't have to specifically identify them as bad people; just describe their most negative qualities and that's all we will know about them. Presto-- a bad person.

(December 2, 2014 at 8:57 am)Alice Wrote: Why does it have to be a weak mind? Smart people believe their faiths all the stronger, since they can do that thing where they justify their beliefs and stuff.

No no no, Alice, having a strong believe in your religious faith doesn't necessarily mean you have a weak mind. Taking joy in someone else's suffering does though. (In my humble opinion of course).

(December 2, 2014 at 10:23 am)Losty Wrote: No no no, Alice, having a strong believe in your religious faith doesn't necessarily mean you have a weak mind.

To the contrary, there are many people who have great minds as well as great faith. A weak mind is more likely to promote wavering and fence-sitting.

(December 2, 2014 at 11:32 am)JonDarbyXIII Wrote:

(December 2, 2014 at 10:23 am)Losty Wrote: No no no, Alice, having a strong believe in your religious faith doesn't necessarily mean you have a weak mind.

To the contrary, there are many people who have great minds as well as great faith. A weak mind is more likely to promote wavering and fence-sitting.

Did you read my post? Or Alice's? Neither of us said it did.

There's nothing wrong with wavering or fence sitting. In my opinion, a great person will spend their whole life sitting on the fence only choosing one side or another when they're truly certain and have taken plenty of time to consider the options. Most of the time the fence is the smartest place to sit.

Loose women and hard living?

(December 2, 2014 at 12:02 pm)Losty Wrote: Did you read my post? Or Alice's? Neither of us said it did.

I didn't say you had said that, though that is a common (although unfair) objection to theism. I agree with your statement; I was just pointing out that theists are not weak-minded because they have faith, no matter how we may see this as irrational. Perhaps, I was leading this off topic though.

(December 2, 2014 at 12:02 pm)Losty Wrote: There's nothing wrong with wavering or fence sitting. In my opinion, a great person will spend their whole life sitting on the fence only choosing one side or another when they're truly certain and have taken plenty of time to consider the options. Most of the time the fence is the smartest place to sit.

I'm still pondering this one--I hadn't really considered it that way.....

I think my objection would be to someone who is content in sitting on the fence. No, there is nothing wrong with holding out on a conclusion while continuing to analyze the evidence, but when you say they should be "truly certain," I think this is a stretch. I am confident and comfortable in my beliefs, but I don't think there is ever true certainty (though maybe you weren't necessarily referring to an 'ultimate' certainty as Christians refer to it---whatever that means).

I'm not on the fence as far as Christianity goes, but I am on the fence for most things in my life. I don't like to hold on so tightly to anything. I like to keep an open mind.

(December 2, 2014 at 10:23 am)Losty Wrote: No no no, Alice, having a strong believe in your religious faith doesn't necessarily mean you have a weak mind. Taking joy in someone else's suffering does though. (In my humble opinion of course).

I take joy in other people's suffering, depending on the mood. I also take joy in lessening other people's suffering... people enjoy things, sometimes conflicting things, sometimes unhealthy, or even 'disgusting' things...

Does my mind become 'weak' just because I enjoy something that you don't agree with?

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(December 2, 2014 at 11:32 am)JonDarbyXIII Wrote: To the contrary, there are many people who have great minds as well as great faith. A weak mind is more likely to promote wavering and fence-sitting.

Though whether one's justified knowledge makes them the wiser or more the fool is a matter of debate among their peers... and perhaps their self.

(December 2, 2014 at 1:19 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Loose women and hard living?

That's a topic that deserves it's own thread, obviously.