(December 5, 2014 at 11:27 am)robvalue Wrote: Doesn't answer any of my questions, but yes. I am.

God knows everything, so he knows what we are going to do from the instant we are born until we die. So we have no actual free will, we can't choose to do something he hasn't foreseen. Therefore he knows all the mistakes we will make when he makes us, and chooses to make us that way.

The problem with this is that foreknowledge and free will are contradictory, so it's either one or the other. The other problem is that if we make mistakes, God has given us the possibility of making mistakes. He needn't have done that. We could just be happy all the time and choose between lovely options. Like in heaven as often described.

We certainly wouldn't need cars or bank accounts.

It's most certainly not according to "us guys" I assume Christians, its according to God, his Word that we have the law.
The Law is there that we "us guys" know where we in terms of obedience to God.
Unfortunately we all miss the mark by an astounding margin (I dare not say infinite because our lives are finite).
God gave us free will because he didn't want a bunch of preprogramed robots running around, he wanted individuals that would choose to fellowship with Him.

Remember, (according to you guys) God made all the rules in the first place. So if there's something he has to "work around" then we have a problem.

---

(December 7, 2014 at 3:49 pm)abaris Wrote:

(December 7, 2014 at 3:34 pm)ChristIsLord Wrote: God the Son, put on flesh, came down to live and suffer along us and did so without committing a single sin so that he may be presented blameless before the cross.

Makes the story even more absurd as has been said about a million times in different threads. God sacrificed himself to himself if he came down in Jesus' form.

Been there, done that.

I don't find it absurd at all, does a parent expect a child to cook for himself or does he/she do the cooking and feeding of that child.....that the child may be nurtured and live and grow.
We cannot go to the cross, but He who is blameless can, not for Himself, but for us.

(December 7, 2014 at 3:44 pm)professor Wrote: I am curious why you guys believe you are automatons?

I am also curious which you would choose for a companion-
One you pre-programed with every attribute you like ( a hi tech robot).
Or a companion who can interact with you from different angles and wants to be with you by their own choice.

I don't believe I'm an automaton, but I do believe that's what Yahweh would prefer. Seeing how self centered he is, and how he thinks he is the only good being in existence.

I think both of those things has its uses, but I also believe I don't have the right to force myself on another free thinking being. I don't intend to start a bonfire, and tell everyone I disagree with that they deserve to spend the rest of their existence in that fire, and they need to beg my forgiveness for disagreeing with me on anything ever.

No, we don't tell our children to do for ourselves. Responsible parents do raise their children so that the child can eventually grow into an independent person and live their life without the parent's constant guidance.

(November 29, 2014 at 5:22 pm)Simon Moon Wrote:

(November 29, 2014 at 4:22 pm)Lek Wrote: I'm not making up excuses at all. In fact, I said that I don't need to defend God's actions. He can do what he wants to do. He's the one who knows it all. Not me. You ask why an omniscient god would do this or that. Why do you claim to know better than he does?

So then, 'might makes right', according to you.

How is that not totalitarianism?

How do you know that the deity that you worship is the good one?

He who gave his Son out of love for us wretched sinners even when we hated Him so that it would open the door for a relationship with us, can only be good.

(December 5, 2014 at 10:50 am)professor Wrote: Rob, are you saying every mistake or accident we make or decision (for that matter) is God's doing?

If you see a recently fired coworker loading an AR-15 and getting ready to go spree on your office and you don't say anything, opting instead to let them get killed, you are morally responsible at least in part for those deaths.

(December 7, 2014 at 5:17 pm)ChristIsLord Wrote:

(November 29, 2014 at 5:22 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: So then, 'might makes right', according to you.

How is that not totalitarianism?

How do you know that the deity that you worship is the good one?

He who gave his Son out of love for us wretched sinners even when we hated Him so that it would open the door for a relationship with us, can only be good.

And you don't find this absurd? Crazy how human beings can hold onto such illogical and clearly false beliefs.

I never understand why you guys repeatedly insist that this god is 'all good', despite all the horrible stuff it does in the bible. I'm just wondering why you look at the genocide of every living creature and human being on the planet (the flood) as being enacted by something I presume you would insist is the ultimate good. I'm certainly not the ultimate good and I would like to think I'd never do that if i had that kind of power. Does that make me more good than your Jewish war god?

I dunno man. I can never understand you guys. Love thy neighbor unless your neighbor is one of the myriad undesirables the holy book says that god doesn't like, even though it apparently made them and gave those that hate them the propensity to hate. If we're made in this god's image, then presumably it, too, has at least an element of hate within it. Again, quite obvious if you read the bible.

(December 7, 2014 at 5:17 pm)ChristIsLord Wrote: He who gave his Son out of love for us wretched sinners even when we hated Him so that it would open the door for a relationship with us, can only be good.

Can't believe it. Doing the usual theist step dance. First, god comes down being Jesus in the flesh, but when the absurdity of that sacrifice is pointed out, it's suddenly the son again.

So what's the trinity? Either they're one or they're seperate beings.

(November 29, 2014 at 11:21 am)JaceDeanLove Wrote: I have thought this for awhile, but I decided to share. I think the whole Garden of Eden scenario was ENTIRELY God's doing. He created Adam and Eve, and was in control of EVERYTHING. He's supposedly omni-everything. If that's the case, he knew they would eat the fruit. In fact, he saw them eat the fruit. And not only that! He placed the tree in the garden (instead of on a tree in a volcano, on Mars.) In fact, idk why he even made the tree anyway. Secondly, he told Adam and Eve not to eat from it. That makes a lot of people wanna do the opposite. He also let the serpent into the garden, and let him convince Adam and Eve. Remember, God controls ALL of this! Lastly... If Adam and Eve were good, how did they sin? And, if the tree gave them knowledge of right and wrong, how did they know it was wrong to eat from it?? I would like everyone's input. I'm genuinely curious. Thanks.

Jace

God is not what you think, and this part of the bible is mostly metaphorical. The fruit on the tree literally means KNOWLEDGE. As man evolved over time from various creatures and before that planets or stars we gained knowledge. Eventually we discovered how to kill those we love. Our own flesh and blood family and friends. We figured out that we are all alone and God is simply positivity and our higher selves. Satan is real, satan is the negative one. All forms of negativity the snake was symbolic of evil, go ahead gain the full knowledge of the universe it'll make you a GOD. Boom that's where they went wrong it was not God's fault but man's fault. The more knowledge we digest the harder it is to stay sane. You wonder why people have Alzheimer's and dementia some people are just too STRESSED. God is not some force that wants everything to be perfect. God is simply all that is. God is something but also nothing but satan is the biggest nothing. Satan is in the mind, evil and so is good, God. I hope you understand better now... I think I have it on good authority that what I tell you here is correct and true.

(December 7, 2014 at 5:17 pm)ChristIsLord Wrote: He who gave his Son out of love for us wretched sinners even when we hated Him so that it would open the door for a relationship with us, can only be good.

"He who made kittens put snakes in the grass."

The idea that your god is good is laughable. He is, at best, amoral, and more likely, a monster unworthy of praise.

(December 7, 2014 at 5:20 pm)abaris Wrote:

(December 7, 2014 at 5:17 pm)ChristIsLord Wrote: He who gave his Son out of love for us wretched sinners even when we hated Him so that it would open the door for a relationship with us, can only be good.

Can't believe it. Doing the usual theist step dance. First, god comes down being Jesus in the flesh, but when the absurdity of that sacrifice is pointed out, it's suddenly the son again.

So what's the trinity? Either they're one or they're seperate beings.

Jesus was just a mortal man, a man who tried to be GOD and was punished with a humiliating slow painful death. He thought he was king of the jews, haha what a moron. He had to wear that crown and endure beatings and horrific violence for days. He got what was coming to him. Karma. I am a better man than Jesus ever will be. You probably are too! If we take Jesus' suffering as symbolic of how we all PAY for our lies and greed then it makes sense. As for Jesus being born of a virgin...
He was a biochemist and a fitness instructor and a nutritional expert... LITERALLY. Demons are in the mind. You cast them out through exercise and good nutrition. I cast out my demons by smoking... which is weird but it makes my mind calm down.

(December 7, 2014 at 5:23 pm)Rarthyr500 Wrote: Boom that's where they went wrong it was not God's fault but man's fault. The more knowledge we digest the harder it is to stay sane. You wonder why people have Alzheimer's and dementia some people are just too STRESSED.

Hi.

Aside from the new age woo in your post, I wanted clarification about the above.

Are you saying that learning eventually gives you Alzheimers? Or, more specifically, learning contributes to stress (???) which then means you suffer from Alzheimers? I don't understand your point. Could you elucidate?

---

(December 7, 2014 at 5:26 pm)Rarthyr500 Wrote: He was a biochemist and a fitness instructor and a nutritional expert... LITERALLY. Demons are in the mind. You cast them out through exercise and good nutrition. I cast out my demons by smoking... which is weird but it makes my mind calm down.

hohoho. I sense a whole new level of crazy over the horizon.