(December 6, 2014 at 1:14 pm)robvalue Wrote: No, we don't accept what you say because it has no evidence for it whatsoever. Science on the other hand has so much evidence anyone would struggle to even read all of it. It's entirely, completely different.

Really, what about dark matter, can't be touched, be smelled, be seen. None of the physical attributes you demand of God, yet you accept it without question. I've heard the argument that we can observe the effects it has on other things, I've said the same about God, yet dark matter is all you accept. Until I can see it touch it and smell it I want believe it, that's close to what atheist say about God, right.

Quote:No, we won't accept stuff straight out of the bible as truth, because it's a story book with no other decent corroborating evidence. Especially for the supernatural claims, which are all but impossible to verify even if we had other sources.

Exactly why should you expect that the supernatural to be within your grasp without it directing you. There's a reason we call it supernatural.

Quote:Do you accept the kuran as truth? Believe every word of it? What about all the other holy books? Zeus? Thor? Flying Spaghetti Monster? Illusionary pink unicorn? Would you believe anything I said about them if I had nothng to back it up?

You can't have anything to back it up. God says He's the only real God and since I believe He's not a liar and I know He exists that eliminates anything you could hope for from all the pretend gods.

Quote:If you think science has nothing to back it up, all that means is you can't be bothered to research it, end of story. Science is only competing with religion in as much as science shows us all the glaring errors in a supposedly infallible book.

Science has no proof the Bible has errors in it. I never said science has nothing to back it up. There are many good sciences, I appreciate them, they've made life easier and many things understandable.

Quote:I could quiz you on the bible all day and show you how you don't follow it, but you'd just tap dance like every apologist and make excuses. If that's not the case, tell me whether slavery would be fine today or not. Or stoning someone to death for picking up sticks on a Sunday. Would you stone me to death for picking up sticks on a Sunday?

No you can't, well maybe in your own mind, but then we can't accept that, you lack the spiritual guidance of the Holy Spirit. Also by what you posted, that I put in bold, shows you're stuck in a past that was overcome by Christ.

Quote:What you need to try and get your head around is that the bible (which just happens to be the religion you were indoctrinated in, you'd be a Muslim if born somewhere else) is a book of claims.

There are Christians all over the Middle East, in China, Russia and many places in the world where Christianity is not the dominate religion.
Just what do you think the Bible claims?

Quote:Someone is saying stuff happened. That does not mean it happened. The book is not magic, it is just a book.

It is a study book of life, a life that can be in relationship with God. Doesn't mean it didn't happen either. It's not magic and I never claimed it was, actually atheist like to claim that one. It is however more than just a book, it can guide one to an everlasting peace.

Quote: Anyone can write anything down they like.

I see you've noticed that happens here to, shouldn't have been to hard for you though you do it all the time.

Quote:Why is the bible special, in that it is magically true? Because it's the word of God, so it's true so it's the bible so... Circular logic.

It's the word of God, that makes it the most special book. No it's not magical, however the miracle of salvation happens daily because of it. No one will ever stop that.

Quote: You cannot prove something is true by appealing to itself. If I say I do not lie, can that be taken as evidence that I do not lie? Because I said I do not lie? No.

I can point to a clam shell and prove it's a clam shell with no other evidence.

Quote:I could go on all day but... I know you'll never change your mind.

One would be crazy to give up what I know is the truth, I have no doubts, so why should I even consider giving up what I know.

Quote:Anyhow, thanks for chatting. I know you did read what I said and tried to take it to heart but I fear we will never be able to see eye to eye.

I do not see why we can't come to agreement on somethings, even God if you decide to give Him a chance.

Quote: So, thanks for making the effort to meet me half way. It's much more than most so.

I hope we can have more discussions in the future. Thanks for not using what I consider foul language in our chats.

GC

Clam shells and dark matter? Is that what we've become? I long for the old days of swords, blood, the ripe smell of dashed babies. You could do what you want, kill who you like, and if you lived long enough you could write whatever you want about it and it would be true.

(December 9, 2014 at 5:07 am)robvalue Wrote: Clam shells and dark matter? Is that what we've become? I long for the old days of swords, blood, the ripe smell of dashed babies. You could do what you want, kill who you like, and if you lived long enough you could write whatever you want about it and it would be true.

I'm assuming you have no answer for the clam shell or dark matter.

GC

I have plenty of answers, but then it will just be another tangential objection and more ad-hoc rationalizations. So instead I was telling a story. I have tried hard, I really have. I've used about every device I can think of.

(December 9, 2014 at 4:59 am)Godschild Wrote: Really, what about dark matter, can't be touched, be smelled, be seen. None of the physical attributes you demand of God, yet you accept it without question. I've heard the argument that we can observe the effects it has on other things, I've said the same about God, yet dark matter is all you accept. Until I can see it touch it and smell it I want believe it, that's close to what atheist say about God, right.

A scientist who makes claims about dark matter will make his observations known and explain how and why he came to that conclusion. His work can then be investigated and researched by others, who might add to it or even reject it, and they must show their work as well. That allows more and more people to check the work and either begin to build a workable theory or dismiss it as invalid. No one "accepts it without question." On the contrary, it continues to be questioned. That is how our knowledge of the universe improves.

Claims about god are all over the map; there are many different gods, and many different versions of the same gods. People can make claims about how they "detect" or "experience" god, but those claims cannot be researched or confirmed because there is no standard method for doing so. And while you may accept one experience because it supports the god you believe in, you will dismiss those experiences which point to a different god.

And accepting or rejecting dark matter has no effect on my life in general, since I'm not a theoretical physicist. It's just information and potential knowledge. I can take it or leave it. I don't think you see god in the same way. Don't you think it's crazy that there is a much more rigorous path for claims about dark matter than there is for claims about god?

(December 8, 2014 at 9:20 pm)Drich Wrote:

(December 7, 2014 at 11:26 pm)watchamadoodle Wrote: Drich, have you ever wondered if Christianity is like putting clown makeup on God? Maybe God talks to an Aztec using the Aztec religion and culture. Then God talks to a Christian using the Christian religion and culture. The Christian religion is no more true than the Aztec religion; it is just a language.

Seriously?

The "christian religion/language" was established by Christ/God. If God speaks through this religion would it not make sense to listen?

You might understand God more clearly if you free yourself from the assumptions of Christian theology. One of the innovations of Judaism was the idea that idols were not good.

The scales have fallen from my eyes,
And I saw to my surprise,
There was no God after all,
Just a mirror on the wall.

(December 4, 2014 at 3:34 pm)Drich Wrote:

(December 4, 2014 at 2:28 pm)vorlon13 Wrote: Give up cherry picking, ALL Scripture is suitable.

Join me in castigating, rebuking, and dissing the fucktard Mormons.

I had some fun in the past with mormonism. You guys do a good enough job without me.

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(December 4, 2014 at 1:58 pm)Chad32 Wrote: Try to hate yourself a little bit more, as Jesus teaches you to do.

It actually took me a long time and alot of big wins to stop hating myself. I hated the fact that i was always different and never belonged.. Now I love the fact that I am always different and never belong, and still I thrive thans to God !!!

@Dirch
no you have to hate yourself you have to hate your family and put god first that's pretty much christianity. pretty much god wants you to feel as a person and individual to feel unworthy of his love and make you feel bad so he can take you to heaven and pretty much give you love and attention. So my regards go be happy now love your family do not put god first because here is the problem he doesn't want you to be happy he doesn't want you to love your family or love yourself. I'm just saying everyone needs love from human being except me i like money.

(December 9, 2014 at 6:41 am)Tonus Wrote: [quote='Godschild' pid='813928' dateline='1418115578']

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Really, what about dark matter, can't be touched, be smelled, be seen. None of the physical attributes you demand of God, yet you accept it without question. I've heard the argument that we can observe the effects it has on other things, I've said the same about God, yet dark matter is all you accept. Until I can see it touch it and smell it I want believe it, that's close to what atheist say about God, right.

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Quote:A scientist who makes claims about dark matter will make his observations known and explain how and why he came to that conclusion.

I've done that here, with God.

Quote: His work can then be investigated and researched by others, who might add to it or even reject it, and they must show their work as well.

My testimony was and is open to investigation and research, no one hear has done either, why? I think indifference. Now let me get this straight, when one scientist makes a claim and gives his supposed truth, it is then the other scientists responsibility to prove the first right or wrong, right. Then why is this not afforded to Christians and what we claim. We make a claim and give our results, we ask to see it disproved and the same atheist reaction comes, it's up to the claimant to prove, this is not so with how you described scientist and their claims.

Quote: That allows more and more people to check the work and either begin to build a workable theory or dismiss it as invalid. No one "accepts it without question." On the contrary, it continues to be questioned. That is how our knowledge of the universe improves.

Yet atheist do not do this when a Christian makes a claim here. The most recited answer we get,"you're wrong. That sound like the way to disprove what we claim.

Quote:Claims about god are all over the map; there are many different gods, and many different versions of the same gods. People can make claims about how they "detect" or "experience" god, but those claims cannot be researched or confirmed because there is no standard method for doing so.

This can be said about scientific claims as well.

Quote:And accepting or rejecting dark matter has no effect on my life in general, since I'm not a theoretical physicist. It's just information and potential knowledge. I can take it or leave it. I don't think you see god in the same way. Don't you think it's crazy that there is a much more rigorous path for claims about dark matter than there is for claims about god?

Well it does mine, if it's true a new part of creation has been found, if not then I am tempted to believe it's a way scientist want to disprove creation, which really makes no sense. Isn't discovery just that, no matte how something came about.
Yes I think so, people just reject God, no rigorous searching, yes I've heard what's been said here and every story is the same, just some little difference but, he basic story is the same. If there was rigorous searching wouldn't you expect the stories to widely vary, whoever if there was a single influence you would find the stories to be the same, so a single influence is a rational determination.

GC

(December 9, 2014 at 6:24 pm)Godschild Wrote: ...
Yes I think so, people just reject God, no rigorous searching, yes I've heard what's been said here and every story is the same, just some little difference but, he basic story is the same. If there was rigorous searching wouldn't you expect the stories to widely vary, whoever if there was a single influence you would find the stories to be the same, so a single influence is a rational determination.

Why should a rigorous search lead to different stories? Newton and Leibniz invented the same calculus independently, because it was the truth. If atheists disagree with Christian claims for the same reasons, then maybe their reasons are truth that they found independently through rigorous searching?

Also, some atheists used to be Christians. I'm sure most of them performed a very rigorous search, and they only gave up Christianity after the evidence against it became overwhelming.

(Maybe I'm missing your point. If so I'm sorry.)