It seems that the time is ripe for opinion and lies to replace truth and morality.

And now that God has been ceremoniously and conveniently stripped from society... EVERYTHING will be based on public opinion. The lines will be blurred; and goal posts with wheels on what was once a moral foundation. ONE, that held all else to a higher standard.

Even atheists must agree, that the society as we are now morphing into is due to a lack of instilled morality. I've heard here, that empathy is all that one needs to build a moral bases..... I ask, where do you find that in the general public? Who finds empathy, and where? A video game, or sniper movie? Perhaps an evening of s&m porn will make one empathetic? No, there is no tap for empathy. We hope some parent, somewhere is teaching their child how to empathize.... and not to walk by a bleeding person in the street who may be our child!

Where will ALL the good people come from? Per society (and atheist) wishes, God and His people will diminish. But then, Allah and his cohorts are their replacement! A New World Order needs a new minor annoyance.... Oui? Do you not find it strange that our society is now embracing almost everything that is counter to our sense of natural order? Its actually, mind boggling! And at a pace that is making heads spin! Or roll as Allah and our govt would have it!

And the NWO will of course be how many people you have on your side of the street! And how sharp your sword is. So stock up on vittles and candles. And get ready for a bumpy ride. Its not gonna get better. I'm usually an optimist. Not lately. I'll probably be one of the first to go anyway! I don't take to change very well.

Not sure what you want to talk about here, Ron. The Michael Brown case or the idea that atheism and secularism will lead to a less moral world. I'll assume the latter.

I don't think any fair minded person with more than a casual grasp of western history would want to make the case that life over the last 2000 years has been a moral golden age. When violence hasn't been perpetrated by the church itself it has been waged regardless of what little difference the church has made. Apart from the availability of weapons which can turn any goof ball into a big time killer, we are probably safer now than people have been in the past 2000 years. Perhaps there are more unhinged individuals who lack social mooring and therefore weapon up and shoot up schools. But at least we don't live in times when other nation states think seriously of taking you over, killing your women and children and moving in.

Also, you can't lump Islam together with atheism. Allah and Jehovah are cut from the same cloth, and both Christians and Muslims have been eager to martyr themselves for a 'higher' cause. Witness the killing of abortion doctors by xtian crazies.

Is this one of the annual doomsday prediction rituals?

(January 2, 2015 at 3:25 am)ronedee Wrote: Where will ALL the good people come from? Per society (and atheist) wishes, God and His people will diminish. But then, Allah and his cohorts are their replacement! A New World Order needs a new minor annoyance.... Oui? Do you not find it strange that our society is now embracing almost everything that is counter to our sense of natural order? Its actually, mind boggling! And at a pace that is making heads spin! Or roll as Allah and our govt would have it!

God and Allah are the same. They are even the same god being. Gabriel and Jesus kind of give Allah's disguise away, try as he might. And from an atheist perspective, god is god and speaking only for me of course, I don't want to abolish religion, I just want it's greedy little fingers kept out of politics. Believe what you want, but don't try to shove it down the throats of innocent bystanders.

As for morality and empathy. Animals have them too, as recent experiments show. It's hard coded in our system, if we aren't sociopaths. Evolution took care of that, since being social gives an advantage. No need to follow an operations manual as many christians do. And I often observe them doing it blindly, without letting their selves be the judge if something is moral or immoral.

And the state of the world has never been good. Human nature stands against it, since we're a competitive species. Also, when we look at history, religion has often been used to justify brutality. Given the contents of the holy books, it isn't that hard to find justifications for every kind of atrocity.

(January 2, 2015 at 5:15 am)Aoi Magi Wrote: Is this one of the annual doomsday prediction rituals?

The monster-shouters get loose once in while and this happens.

@OP:
"Even atheists must agree, that the society as we are now morphing into is due to a lack of instilled morality."

We don't get morality from religion alone, nor is religion all that good at instilling morality. The Bible is a horrible example of morality. (You may yeah-but as much as you wish.)

(January 2, 2015 at 5:15 am)Aoi Magi Wrote: Is this one of the annual doomsday prediction rituals?

Kind of. Christians in particular look to some form of 'the times they are a-changing' as a guide to the return of Christ and either the rapture or the end of the world. It seems as if every few years, they are lamenting the way things are getting worse and worse, while also being hopeful that it heralds the second coming. But since this sort of grass-was-once-greener opining is a constant for people, they don't seem to realize that they've been making this same argument for, literally, hundreds of years.

Things aren't getting worse, they're getting a lot better. But that doesn't fit the narrative, so they have to remind us every now and again that we're all circling the drain and only Jesus can fish us out of the bowl in time.

(January 2, 2015 at 6:27 am)Tonus Wrote: Kind of. Christians in particular look to some form of 'the times they are a-changing' as a guide to the return of Christ and either the rapture or the end of the world.

The evangelical end times porn isn't part of catholic doctrine. And OP claims to be catholic.

Ron, what are you actually arguing against here? Atheism? Secularism?

Consider for a second that often the most secular, least religious societies also tend to be some of the most prosperous financially and socially, and also the happiest.

I don't see any evidence that religious people are 'more' moral than non-religious people. Put your average atheist next to your average theist and you'll struggle to find a difference for day to day behaviour.

Also we need to remember that secularism is a christian construct that attempts to create fairness and equality of (non)-beliefs in the public realm. To date it is the only effective and efficacious method of creating a system that incorporates all (non)-beliefs. We need to consider that if Christianity is dying in terms of membership in states that employ a secular political paradigm for governmental structures (and the evidence points to this being true, at least in Europe), then the problem lies with Christianity itself and not the system it helped to create. Religions thrive on trying to convert people to accepting and believing it. It is not the fault of atheists or secularists that this Is not happening to the degree it was, I don't think.

Remember that "morality" has two different meanings, which have almost nothing to do with each other. You have to be clear which one you are talking about and not try and slide from one to other mid sentence, hoping no one will notice.

(January 2, 2015 at 6:29 am)abaris Wrote: The evangelical end times porn isn't part of catholic doctrine.

So it's not 100% batshit insane? That's mildly comforting, I have to admit.