(January 13, 2015 at 1:04 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: Kindly do not edit my quotes.

Thanks for fixing it.

(January 13, 2015 at 1:01 pm)Chili Wrote: Yes, and beyond belonging is being, and beyond being is seeing the being see, and that is when you first know who you are as if only the bottom light in a Christmas tree seen.

It is from this point in life that the journey of life really begins with a star shining above to lead us on to the top. Just imagery, that's all.

Additionally, you do realize I'm using random, profound-sounding words smashed together in no particular order or structure, right? You're responding to gibberish. Which is convenient, because you're also responding with gibberish.

Yes sorry.

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(January 13, 2015 at 1:04 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: Kindly do not edit my quotes.

Thanks for fixing it.

(January 13, 2015 at 1:01 pm)Chili Wrote: Yes, and beyond belonging is being, and beyond being is seeing the being see, and that is when you first know who you are as if only the bottom light in a Christmas tree seen.

It is from this point in life that the journey of life really begins with a star shining above to lead us on to the top. Just imagery, that's all.

Additionally, you do realize I'm using random, profound-sounding words smashed together in no particular order or structure, right? You're responding to gibberish. Which is convenient, because you're also responding with gibberish.

Yes, and I used it to say that belonging is like slavery would be.

Yes, but belonging like slavery is like the depth of the longing to belong like a slave, but without the slavery of belonging. Longing for a long slave, however, is perfectly consistent in the context of perfect consistency as well as consistent perfection, considering the consonant and concomitant conception of consensus; concerning, of course, the unknown knowns commensurate with the known unknowns. Inasmuch as one knows how little one knows or can knowingly know.

That's weird, it says that exact thing inside my fortune cookie.

(January 13, 2015 at 11:16 am)Rhythm Wrote: As I've already mentioned, my opinion is that your inductive argument is terminally weak for the very same reasons that a deductive argument along those lines is invalid.

This continues to show that you don't understand the difference between the two forms of reasoning since you apply the same criterion for both. I rest my case here. It could also be the case that you are not putting forward what you mean in a manner that I can understand clearly.

(January 13, 2015 at 11:16 am)Rhythm Wrote: I have goals or I do not have goals
Many of my shits have come into existence
Many of my shits have since been flushed
Flushing has no purpose
Therefore I have no goals.

This is a straw man if there ever was one. I bet I don't need to tell you what a straw man is. First up your fourth premise is wrong because flushing does in fact have a purpose. We flush toilets to eradicate excrement. Well maybe in your part of the world flushing doesn't have a purpose so your premise may be right after all. But in the civilised world it does.

You would need to come up with evidence or an argument to support that extinction does have a purpose.

Another area where your straw man fails is that shitting is largely involuntary. Therefore, it is irrelevant to the whole argument in analysing whether you act with purpose or not. Purpose implies voluntary action. My extinction argument is framed in a way that the premises can be reasonably assigned to an action of nature (creation). This is linked to how I defined nature as the reason why things are.

(January 13, 2015 at 11:16 am)Rhythm Wrote: (I hope your instructor flunked you btw. If not, I'd be looking for a better instructor, or a more productive way to spend a year of my life)

I'm not sure why you found it necessary to include this. If it makes you feel better I did struggle at first. The exercises were boring writing exercise. The stuff you hear on youtube debates only came 7 chapters in. That was fun but not the reason I too the course. I did it to improve my problem solving skills. Anyway I ended up maintaining a B average. Still not an A but this was just a voluntary thing. I did not need this for degree purposes.

(January 14, 2015 at 9:11 am)Stimbo Wrote: Yes, but belonging like slavery is like the depth of the longing to belong like a slave, but without the slavery of belonging. Longing for a long slave, however, is perfectly consistent in the context of perfect consistency as well as consistent perfection, considering the consonant and concomitant conception of consensus; concerning, of course, the unknown knowns commensurate with the known unknowns. Inasmuch as one knows how little one knows or can knowingly know.

Well, and I would call it the height in that peace is found in the greater good that is visible in the tradition that surrounds us. It is where a child can be a child and cold can be cold with the unknown known remaining the distant unknown in the freedom that is given to belong without any tension to be. It is like a walk on the beach along the shores of the greater good not visible to us, instead of, and just opposite to a walk on the catwalk were we are on exhibition for everyone to see, including preacher who does not belong to make evil known as an opposite there.

Then, if the sense of belonging suggest that all learning is done from what is prior to nature in us, it will be natures duty to expose the icon in us and we will bow gently when we encounter as if it was a spectator in us until we do. It is from here that, as we journey along the shores of wide waters we find that every bush is a burning bush in the same way, we will finally take off our shoes as one of those too.

(January 14, 2015 at 10:09 am)BlackMason Wrote: This continues to show that you don't understand the difference between the two forms of reasoning since you apply the same criterion for both. I rest my case here. It could also be the case that you are not putting forward what you mean in a manner that I can understand clearly.

No worries, let me attempt this again. Regardless of whether we use deductive or inductive logic in order to reach our conclusion we will be leveraging the same principles. We're doing logic - in either case. Ignoring deduction, for a moment, since you seem to be hung up on that, I'll only comment on the strength of an inductive argument for the next few moments.

When you make an inductive argument, you are claiming that there is a particular sort of implicational relationship between the statements. Or, to put it another way...your way, that the statements made are reason to accept that the conclusion -might be- true. This, is sufficient condition. I'm suggesting (more like flat out declaring) that this relationship does not actually exist between the statements you chose to leverage.

We are free to make the statements you've made and call it an inductive argument. However, the -strength- of that argument still rests on the implicational relationship between the statements, condition. It's not irrelevant, it's the only remaining relevant thing after having excused ourselves on all other counts. If we cannot meet that bar, after having thrown out all other requirements, "strong" isn't exactly a word I'd use to describe our argument.

Follow?

Quote:

(January 13, 2015 at 11:16 am)Rhythm Wrote: I have goals or I do not have goals
Many of my shits have come into existence
Many of my shits have since been flushed
Flushing has no purpose
Therefore I have no goals.

This is a straw man if there ever was one.

That term does not mean what you think it means. I offered you -my own- argument, I am not misrepresenting -your argument-.

Quote: I bet I don't need to tell you what a straw man is. First up your fourth premise is wrong because flushing does in fact have a purpose.

Obvious bait is obvious. Don't you think?

Quote:We flush toilets to eradicate excrement. Well maybe in your part of the world flushing doesn't have a purpose so your premise may be right after all. But in the civilised world it does.

The reasons that you, or anyone else in the world might flush a toilet have nothing to do with me. Perhaps I do it out of habit, perhaps I'm compelled to do it, but none of that matters - because I'm trying to help you understand mechanics, not proposing the truth value of the statement or even the conclusion.

If this were true - if there were some tribe of savages (of which I am a member) out there who flush toilets only by compulsion or through habit - would this give you any more reason to trust my conclusion than you had before? Is their a sufficient implicational relationship between the statements to determine that on the basis of the purposelessness of my flush - I have no goals?

Quote:You would need to come up with evidence or an argument to support that extinction does have a purpose.

"Prove me wrong" says the man who thinks he's lecturing me in logic. Apologetics 101 is that way, I'm uninterested, because proving this wrong won't actually make your conclusion any more or less true........and neither will proving it right do so. There is no such requirement on my end. In case you've missed it, all of the times I've said it...I agree with you, that extinction is purposeless. I' simply hoping that I can explain to you why this does not have the ability to inform us as to whether or not -nature- is purposeless.

Quote:Another area where your straw man fails is that shitting is largely involuntary.

Again, it isn't a strawman...but lay that aside, isn't extinction "largely involuntary"? Jesus...fucking...christ......

Quote: Therefore, it is irrelevant to the whole argument in analysing whether you act with purpose or not. Purpose implies voluntary action. My extinction argument is framed in a way that the premises can be reasonably assigned to an action of nature (creation). This is linked to how I defined nature as the reason why things are.

You have a habit of declaring any disagreement with you irrelevant and letting the statement hang as though it demonstrated itself. I don't think that you're going to be able to successfully employ logic until you get over that. You're now referring to mystery arguments that you haven't made as further strength of an argument that you -have- made? Pretty sure it doesn't work like that. My argument is framed in an identical manner to your own. As an inductive argument, assume for a moment that my statements are true, that we live in a universe where they are true. Would those statements lead you to my conclusion? I doubt it, and the truth value of the statements isn't the operative factor at all, not in my argument, and not in yours.

I'm not trying to dispute your statements (notice that I have assumed them in each and every case), I'm tring to show you why, even if those statement's -were true- (which, again...I think they are) you still would not have a strong argument.

Quote:I'm not sure why you found it necessary to include this. If it makes you feel better I did struggle at first. The exercises were boring writing exercise. The stuff you hear on youtube debates only came 7 chapters in. That was fun but not the reason I too the course. I did it to improve my problem solving skills. Anyway I ended up maintaining a B average. Still not an A but this was just a voluntary thing. I did not need this for degree purposes.

Then you should understand why repeatedly calling me a dum-dum rather than addressing my statements didn't hold any water either. Here I am, trying to help you further improve your problem solving skills. Take it or leave it. Again, we have valid -deductive- means by which to establish that nature has no purpose, so no wishy washy inductive shit is required. This is an exercise in craft, not me trying to prove you wrong, that nature -does- have a purpose. The long and short of this, if I can only get one thing acrossed, is that the difference in mechanics between induction and deduction is one of condition. Deductive arguments require necessity (which is why we consider them to be stronger than inductive arguments), inductive arguments will settle for sufficiency......but that implicational relationship - that sufficient condition...-must be present-...the relevance of this is not in dispute, and it's the rock upon which your argument (and my argument above) has scuttled itself. It actually doesn't matter whether or not the statements either of us made are true, we cannot trust our conclusions. If those conclusions are true (and in the case of your conclusions regarding natures purpose, and more appropriately the lack there-of, we both think that they are), they are not made so by the statements we offered, but some other (undiscovered, unknown, or undeclared) reason.

(January 14, 2015 at 11:19 am)Chili Wrote:

(January 14, 2015 at 9:11 am)Stimbo Wrote: Yes, but belonging like slavery is like the depth of the longing to belong like a slave, but without the slavery of belonging. Longing for a long slave, however, is perfectly consistent in the context of perfect consistency as well as consistent perfection, considering the consonant and concomitant conception of consensus; concerning, of course, the unknown knowns commensurate with the known unknowns. Inasmuch as one knows how little one knows or can knowingly know.

Well, and I would call it the height in that peace is found in the greater good that is visible in the tradition that surrounds us. It is where a child can be a child and cold can be cold with the unknown known remaining the distant unknown in the freedom that is given to belong without any tension to be. It is like a walk on the beach along the shores of the greater good not visible to us, instead of, and just opposite to a walk on the catwalk were we are on exhibition for everyone to see, including preacher who does not belong to make evil known as an opposite there.

Then, if the sense of belonging suggest that all learning is done from what is prior to nature in us, it will be natures duty to expose the icon in us and we will bow gently when we encounter as if it was a spectator in us until we do. It is from here that, as we journey along the shores of wide waters we find that every bush is a burning bush in the same way, we will finally take off our shoes as one of those too.

A predominant concept is the distinction between within and without. But Sartre promotes the use of materialist narrative to modify and read sexual identity.
Foucaultist power relations implies that the task of the writer is social comment. In a sense, if textual desublimation holds, we have to choose between neosemiotic
capitalism and textual discourse. Lyotard’s critique of Foucaultist power relations holds that context is created by communication. Thus, the primary theme of the works
of Rushdie is the role of the participant as writer. The premise of Baudrillardist hyperreality suggests that narrativity is capable of deconstruction, given that Lacan’s essay
on materialist narrative is invalid. But Sontag uses the term ‘textual desublimation’ to denote a submaterial whole.
Derrida uses the term ‘materialist narrative’ to denote the dialectic, and eventually the meaninglessness, of pretextual sexual identity. But Brophy states that the works
of Tarantino are postmodern.
If capitalist rationalism holds, we have to choose between textual desublimation and neotextual capitalist theory. Thus, the subject is interpolated into a Foucaultist power relations that includes language as a totality.

Yes, chillywilly, but consider this.

Half a bee, philosophically, must ipso facto half not be. But half a bee must also be vis à vis its entity, do you see?

But can a bee be said to be or not to be an entire bee, when half the bee is not a bee, due to some ancient injury?

Ho ho ho, tee hee hee, Eric the half a bee.

Is this wretched demi-bee
Half asleep upon my knee
some freak from a menagerie?
No!!! It's Eric the half-a-bee!