I was raised Roman Catholic since birth and have believed in the teachings of the bible because I have been told it is the only way. My parents are always trying to push their Christian ideals on me and it bothers me a lot. I try to have discussions with my father and debate with him but whenever I throw something at him(not literally) it's like it doesn't count. There is no convincing a grown theist, is there? It's always the same with theist: It's true cuz it is.

What do I do to get past the wall of irrational thought and convince them once and for all? Are there any arguments I could use? http://atheistforums.org/images/smilies/thinking.gif

P.S. Just because I'm 15 it doesn't mean I don't know what's going on around the world or I'm not experienced in enough in life to understand, because I get that sometimes.

Thanks a lot!

Hey, I'm 14, and the thing is, don't try to convince him. He'll learn after he dies that there's no heaven. You should just feel superior to him because you know the truth. My dad's the same way.

This is a valuable point in your life when you learn to tolerate idiots.

Learn well.

(August 6, 2010 at 6:33 pm)Nitsuj Wrote: Hey, I'm 14, and the thing is, don't try to convince him. He'll learn after he dies that there's no heaven. You should just feel superior to him because you know the truth. My dad's the same way.

Well, if there is no heaven to go to after we die, then when we die we are simply dead. How could he possibly know something after death? Food for thought.

(August 6, 2010 at 6:30 pm)HeyItsZeus Wrote: I was raised Roman Catholic since birth and have believed in the teachings of the bible because I have been told it is the only way. My parents are always trying to push their Christian ideals on me and it bothers me a lot. I try to have discussions with my father and debate with him but whenever I throw something at him(not literally) it's like it doesn't count. There is no convincing a grown theist, is there? It's always the same with theist: It's true cuz it is.

Because you're their 15 year old son and they're your parents, they're not going to view any of your opposing thoughts seriously. They're just going to ignore it for one reason or another and assume their opinions are better informed.
Attempting to convince them of anything is going to be an uphill battle mostly because they're going to try to preach to you before they bother to actually listen to you, assuming they even get that far.

(August 6, 2010 at 6:30 pm)HeyItsZeus Wrote: What do I do to get past the wall of irrational thought and convince them once and for all? Are there any arguments I could use?

Mostly, you just need to establish communication with them and make sure they listen to what you say.
Make all of your points as rationally as possible. Never resort to logical fallacies. Most importantly, let them make their points, but If all they do is try to talk over you, then the conversation is already over because they've already decided to not listen to you.
Pick your battles with them and don't confront them - if they want to debate with you, let them come to you.
Finally, just be calm, rational, and think critically about the points they make. You'd be surprised at how easy they are to counter. Just know your facts from fiction and you'll do fine.

(August 6, 2010 at 8:07 pm)Skeptisma Wrote: Well, if there is no heaven to go to after we die, then when we die we are simply dead. How could he possibly know something after death? Food for thought.

Heh, yeah, I actually thought of that while posting it, but I couldn't think of any other way to word it.

I'm just glad not everyone is a mindless god zombie

(August 6, 2010 at 6:40 pm)Synackaon Wrote: This is a valuable point in your life when you learn to tolerate idiots.

Learn well.

You will get a lot of practice here.

When I lived at home I toed the line. My dad was a bigoted Irish Catholic. IE "you live in MY house you obey MY rules!(which included church attendance) I solved the problem by leaving home at 18.


Sadly,no one will learn there is no heaven when they die; being dead is not an experience. That realisation has has always irritated me: IF I'm right,the believers will never know. IF I'm wrong, I WILL know pretty much immediately.


I avoid arguing with believers.Partly because I don'tr care about the personal superstitions of others and because it's like talking to an orangutang.

I assert only "I do not believe in god(s), the soul,the supernatural,the paranormal,alien visitations,or fairies at the bottom of my garden due to lack of evidence"

I do NOT assert: "I believe there are no gods etc" or simply "there are no gods" because those statements are untrue of my position.The good news is that in making no claims, I have no burden of proof.The theist asserts "there is a god" or"I believe in god'. The onus is on him to prove his claim, not on me to disprove it. So far no one has managed to provide such proof in recorded history.

Quote:If you could reason with religious people there wouldn't be any (Greg House)

Quote:I was raised Roman Catholic since birth and have believed in the teachings of the bible because I have been told it is the only way. My parents are always trying to push their Christian ideals on me and it bothers me a lot. I try to have discussions with my father and debate with him but whenever I throw something at him(not literally) it's like it doesn't count. There is no convincing a grown theist, is there? It's always the same with theist: It's true cuz it is.

What do I do to get past the wall of irrational thought and convince them once and for all? Are there any arguments I could use? http://atheistforums.org/images/smilies/thinking.gif

P.S. Just because I'm 15 it doesn't mean I don't know what's going on around the world or I'm not experienced in enough in life to understand, because I get that sometimes.

You arent going to be able to convince you parents. Your parents most likely believed they would teach you God's Word and how to live a Godly life, now you are 'claiming' to be an atheist (Although I highly doubt you are). You are not going to be able to convince your parents with any logic or evidence because its a parent thing. I would like to be proven wrong by my 15 year old son, that my belief system was wrong.

I would be careful what you say about thesits. Although some athesits arrogantly claim they are more rational, they are not, they are in the same boat as theists.

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Quote:Hey, I'm 14, and the thing is, don't try to convince him. He'll learn after he dies that there's no heaven. You should just feel superior to him because you know the truth. My dad's the same way.

Wow. I remember when I was 14. lol. I thought I knew everything. (Little advice; be a little more humble and open minded, after all, can you really prove heaven does not exist?)

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Quote:I avoid arguing with believers.Partly because I don'tr care about the personal superstitions of others and because it's like talking to an orangutang.

One of the reasons I never took atheism seriously. I would really like to see how you are more rational and intelligent than religious people?

Quote:I would really like to see how you are more rational and intelligent than religious people?

We're not.

There is no evidence to show a causal relationship between intellect religious beliefs. Although stupid people tend to be religious,not all religious people are stupid.


Although the very brightest people are often atheists, not all atheists are amongst the very brightest.

I have never seen any evidence that human beings a a species are capable of consistent rational thought or behaviour.Nor have I seen any evidence that proves our that reason and intellect are involved in the formation of our most powerful beliefs and attitudes. That may in part be why relatively few people allow anything as prosaic as evidence to change their beliefs or world view.


I must admit, adult converts to any religion bemuse me. I can only conclude they are damaged and emotionally needy human beings with a very modest IQ, such as say little Tommy Cruise and various other celebrity Scientologists.