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RE: Detecting design or intent in nature
January 26, 2015 at 3:46 pm
(This post was last modified: January 26, 2015 at 3:49 pm by Heywood.)
(January 26, 2015 at 3:43 pm)Rhythm Wrote: -Says the man who's committed the very same blunders for 78 pages worth of posts. Here's to 500 yall.
You guys are in denial....that's all. You know what. That doesn't bother me one bit. Debates like this are never won or lost at the time of the debate. The victory occurs later, long after the discussion is forgotten....in moments of self reflection.
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RE: Detecting design or intent in nature
January 26, 2015 at 3:47 pm
(This post was last modified: January 26, 2015 at 3:47 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
About what, let me guess, you haven't been reading my posts, huh? Surprise surprise. 
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Detecting design or intent in nature
January 26, 2015 at 3:51 pm
(January 26, 2015 at 3:47 pm)Rhythm Wrote: About what, let me guess, you haven't been reading my posts, huh? Surprise surprise.
I've learned that when your post contain the jerkoff smilie there isn't any content worth reading. So I auto-skim those.
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RE: Detecting design or intent in nature
January 26, 2015 at 3:58 pm
(January 26, 2015 at 3:44 pm)Heywood Wrote: (January 25, 2015 at 7:27 pm)Surgenator Wrote: This is not how evolution works, and this one of many reasons your automobile example fails.
If you need example of automobile evolution that looks more closely like biological evolution, take a look at this:
1) In 1953 to 1955 the back bumper got shorter but then jump back to elonged version in 1956. Evolution can't do that.
2) What the fuck happen between 1960-1961? Did a bastard child became the main lineage?
3) Did someone chopped off the rear of the 1962 decendent?
4) Did the 1967 just sprouted an spoiler out of nowhere? Where is my small changes over time.
I can go on but thank you for pointing out how cars are do not follow the rules of evolution, specifically the accumalated changes.
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RE: Detecting design or intent in nature
January 26, 2015 at 4:04 pm
(This post was last modified: January 26, 2015 at 4:05 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(January 26, 2015 at 3:51 pm)Heywood Wrote: I've learned that when your post contain the jerkoff smilie there isn't any content worth reading. So I auto-skim those. Might explain why you persist in making the claims that you do......
Fun fact...I got Tibs to add that smiley to the boards.
(you're all welcome)
-almost forgot
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Detecting design or intent in nature
January 26, 2015 at 4:06 pm
(January 26, 2015 at 3:58 pm)Surgenator Wrote: (January 26, 2015 at 3:44 pm)Heywood Wrote: If you need example of automobile evolution that looks more closely like biological evolution, take a look at this:
1) In 1953 to 1955 the back bumper got shorter but then jump back to elonged version in 1956. Evolution can't do that.
2) What the fuck happen between 1960-1961? Did a bastard child became the main lineage?
3) Did someone chopped off the rear of the 1962 decendent?
4) Did the 1967 just sprouted an spoiler out of nowhere? Where is my small changes over time.
I can go on but thank you for pointing out how cars are do not follow the rules of evolution, specifically the accumalated changes.
All those things you describe are small changes. Here is another small change...this time though, it is in a human.
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RE: Detecting design or intent in nature
January 26, 2015 at 4:33 pm
(January 25, 2015 at 4:35 pm)Heywood Wrote: Can emergent self-order occur without intellect? Yes.
At Last!!! 
Quote:Is it your position that all emergent self-order can happen without intellect?
Some do some don't.
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.
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RE: Detecting design or intent in nature
January 26, 2015 at 4:47 pm
(This post was last modified: January 26, 2015 at 4:52 pm by Heywood.)
(January 26, 2015 at 4:33 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: (January 25, 2015 at 4:35 pm)Heywood Wrote: Is it your position that all emergent self-order can happen without intellect?
Some do some don't.
Evolutionary systems are examples of emergent complexity. If some emergent complex systems require intellect and others do not, is it not fair to ask the following question:
Are evolutionary systems the kind of emergent complex systems which require intellect?
How would go about answering that question? Well you would define what evolution is, then go out and look for examples of things which satisfy your definition, and then note if they require intellects. In the case of evolutionary systems it seems intellects are either required to set them up directly as in the case of the spider sim, or they set them up indirectly when provide the necessary elements of such systems.....as in the case of the automobile. One never, ever observes evolutionary systems coming into existence without intellects. Now given this state of affairs it is not unreasonable to conclude that all evolutionary systems require intellects.
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RE: Detecting design or intent in nature
January 26, 2015 at 4:49 pm
(This post was last modified: January 26, 2015 at 4:54 pm by downbeatplumb.)
(January 26, 2015 at 4:47 pm)Heywood Wrote: [quote='downbeatplumb' pid='856654' dateline='1422304407']
Some do some don't. Quote:Evolutionary systems are examples of emergent complexity. If some emergent complex systems require intellect and others do not, is it not fair to ask the following question:
Are evolutionary systems the kind of emergent complex systems which require intellect?
No.
Quote:How would go about answering that question? Well you would define what evolution is, then go out and look for examples of things which satisfy your definition, and then note if they require intellects. In the case of evolutionary systems it seems intellects are either required to set them up directly as in the case of the spider sim, or act as a component as in the case of the automobile. One never, ever observes evolutionary systems coming into existence without intellects. Now given this state of affairs it is not unreasonable to conclude that all evolutionary systems require intellects.
We know how evolution works in detail and this informs the answer. That intellect is not required.
Simple starting conditions can lead to complex results.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2vgICfQawE
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.
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RE: Detecting design or intent in nature
January 26, 2015 at 4:52 pm
(January 26, 2015 at 4:06 pm)Heywood Wrote: (January 26, 2015 at 3:58 pm)Surgenator Wrote: 1) In 1953 to 1955 the back bumper got shorter but then jump back to elonged version in 1956. Evolution can't do that.
2) What the fuck happen between 1960-1961? Did a bastard child became the main lineage?
3) Did someone chopped off the rear of the 1962 decendent?
4) Did the 1967 just sprouted an spoiler out of nowhere? Where is my small changes over time.
I can go on but thank you for pointing out how cars are do not follow the rules of evolution, specifically the accumalated changes.
All those things you describe are small changes. Here is another small change...this time though, it is in a human.
What part of accumulated changes did you miss? You cannot accumulate a smaller rear (1953 to 1955) and drop it off like it never happened (1956) in one generation. Plus, evolution doesn't give you 5 different changes at once (1961). Removing (1962) or adding (1967) a developed heritable trait in one generation isn't allowed by evolution. Your horn examples is not a heritable trait.
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