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RE: Creation/evolution3
January 28, 2015 at 2:29 pm
(January 28, 2015 at 2:04 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: I have noticed a new trend in the theists argument recently.
The "this is why there is no evidence" argument.
The "god exists outside our reference". argument.
The "2 million people can travel tracelessly for 40 years" argument.
The "You can't find evidence for miracles because they leave no mark in nature being supernatural argument" argument. This is helped by how open to interpretation books like the Bible are. "Gaps" arguments are just as easily applied to the Bible as they can be to anything else, because the Bible is so open to interpretation. If the details get sketchy, either dig in your heels or just fall back on magic.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
-Stephen Jay Gould
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RE: Creation/evolution3
January 28, 2015 at 2:38 pm
(This post was last modified: January 28, 2015 at 2:40 pm by Drich.)
(January 28, 2015 at 2:04 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: I have noticed a new trend in the theists argument recently.
The "this is why there is no evidence" argument.
The "god exists outside our reference". argument.
The "2 million people can travel tracelessly for 40 years" argument.
The "You can't find evidence for miracles because they leave no mark in nature being supernatural argument" argument.
Where is the very same evidence from the now found cities, that you are demanding to see from the exodus? Where is the evidence from the different world conquoring armies, that you demand to see from the exodus?
It's not just a lack of evidence from the exodus. If not for the foundational foot prints of said cities we would not have any evidence for anything.
(January 28, 2015 at 2:12 pm)Crossless1 Wrote: (January 28, 2015 at 2:04 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: I have noticed a new trend in the theists argument recently.
The "this is why there is no evidence" argument.
The "god exists outside our reference". argument.
The "2 million people can travel tracelessly for 40 years" argument.
The "You can't find evidence for miracles because they leave no mark in nature being supernatural argument" argument.
It's the last refuge of 6-year-olds, scoundrels, and of course Christians.
and appearently world history.
(January 28, 2015 at 2:29 pm)Tonus Wrote: (January 28, 2015 at 2:04 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: I have noticed a new trend in the theists argument recently.
The "this is why there is no evidence" argument.
The "god exists outside our reference". argument.
The "2 million people can travel tracelessly for 40 years" argument.
The "You can't find evidence for miracles because they leave no mark in nature being supernatural argument" argument. This is helped by how open to interpretation books like the Bible are. "Gaps" arguments are just as easily applied to the Bible as they can be to anything else, because the Bible is so open to interpretation. If the details get sketchy, either dig in your heels or just fall back on magic.
red herring. We were not talking about just the bible or interpertation We were discussing world history and the evidence for it!
I guess now that you FIANALLY understand my arguement you are trying to run from it.
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RE: Creation/evolution3
January 28, 2015 at 3:19 pm
(January 28, 2015 at 2:38 pm)Drich Wrote: red herring. We were not talking about just the bible or interpertation We were discussing world history and the evidence for it!
I guess now that you FIANALLY understand my arguement you are trying to run from it. Your argument comes down to potentially millions of people spending 38 years in an area and leaving no trace, because much smaller groups spending very little time left few traces. That you refuse to see the issue is not a problem for me, because as I've already pointed out I have no story to try and salvage. Which is why I didn't even bother with the logistics of watering and feeding a city-sized group of people and their livestock or dealing with the daily waste products (let me guess, they "repurposed" the hundreds of tons of fecal matter and urine produced every week?). And all this without building a single stone structure!
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
-Stephen Jay Gould
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RE: Creation/evolution3
January 28, 2015 at 3:30 pm
So what I am hearing is that two million people spend forty years in a geographically limited area and nothing is what we would expect to find for that.
Lets say for arguments sake that this very unlikely scenario is possible.
How does that help with proving it happened?
At best it would be saying the exodus is unproven because its unsubstantiated by the evidence.
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.
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RE: Creation/evolution3
January 28, 2015 at 3:33 pm
Here this link provided just disproves all of the bible for all its worth http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/12/24...al-History
Atheism is a non-prophet organization join today.
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RE: Creation/evolution3
January 28, 2015 at 3:45 pm
(January 28, 2015 at 12:56 pm)Drich Wrote: (January 28, 2015 at 10:43 am)h4ym4n Wrote: Speaking of funny desert stories.
![[Image: image_zps2c1df32a.jpg]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=i1064.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu362%2Fh4ym4n%2FMobile%2520Uploads%2Fimage_zps2c1df32a.jpg)
you do understand why they were out there 40 years right? God was killing off a wicked generation, not worthy of the promise land.
And that's okay with you, right? Killing off generations?
It took 6 days to create everything and 40 years to kill?
Was all that slaughtering by the all mighty god successful? Was the land given to the people it was promised to drich?
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RE: Creation/evolution3
January 28, 2015 at 3:50 pm
(January 28, 2015 at 3:19 pm)Tonus Wrote: Your argument comes down to potentially millions of people spending 38 years in an area and leaving no trace, because much smaller groups spending very little time left few traces. I was wrong... You still have no idea what youre arguing against. My Arguement also includes the cities who were inhabbited at the very same time, but for much longer periods hundreds and in some cases for thousands of years... Yet aside from their stone foundations nothing is left. Especially not any of the biodegradeble stuff you are looking for.
Quote:That you refuse to see the issue is not a problem for me, because as I've already pointed out I have no story to try and salvage. Which is why I didn't even bother with the logistics of watering and feeding a city-sized group of people and their livestock or dealing with the daily waste products (let me guess, they "repurposed" the hundreds of tons of fecal matter and urine produced every week?). And all this without building a single stone structure!
So where is all the urine and fecal matter from those cities?
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RE: Creation/evolution3
January 28, 2015 at 3:55 pm
Coming out of your mouth, Drich.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Creation/evolution3
January 28, 2015 at 4:01 pm
(January 28, 2015 at 3:50 pm)Drich Wrote: I was wrong... You still have no idea what youre arguing against. My Arguement also includes the cities who were inhabbited at the very same time, but for much longer periods hundreds and in some cases for thousands of years... Yet aside from their stone foundations nothing is left. Especially not any of the biodegradeble stuff you are looking for. Which of these cities were inhabited for thousands of years and left nothing but stone foundations? The only groups discussed so far were small tribes that nonetheless left tools and pottery along with those stone structures.
Drich Wrote:So where is all the urine and fecal matter from those cities? Which "cities?" Small tribes establishing villages or towns would definitely have had to find ways to deal with the relatively small amounts of waste they produced, whereas you have a group of millions of people and livestock producing massive amounts of waste every day after consuming even more massive amounts of food and water. And, of course, re-purposing every last tool and utensil they had. All without a even a single crude forge or altar or any kind of contraptions for keeping the livestock together or anything other than small campfires (tens of thousands, every night!), apparently.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
-Stephen Jay Gould
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RE: Creation/evolution3
January 28, 2015 at 4:01 pm
(This post was last modified: January 28, 2015 at 4:05 pm by Drich.)
(January 28, 2015 at 3:30 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: So what I am hearing is that two million people spend forty years in a geographically limited area and nothing is what we would expect to find for that. After 4000 years and no perminate structures, absolutly not. Why? Because of the cities of the time only the stone foundations remain!!!
Quote:Lets say for arguments sake that this very unlikely scenario is possible.
How does that help with proving it happened?
At best it would be saying the exodus is unproven because its unsubstantiated by the evidence.
It shows those who point to a lack of evidence as 'proof it did not happen' that their's is an argumentum ad ignorantiam. And place the exodus in the very same vain as Alexander the great's march where he lost an army in that region with out a trace, or the discourse that follows a excavation of a lost city that tells who those people were what they did from day to day and even proclaim a name of a city without any direct cocnclusive evidence. Yet somehow gets recorded in the books as that place.
Again fending off those who are more than willing to argue from a position of ignorance, makes the exodus account plausible.
(January 28, 2015 at 3:33 pm)dyresand Wrote: Here this link provided just disproves all of the bible for all its worth http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/12/24...al-History
http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/free-...scoveries/
check mate dry sand!
(January 28, 2015 at 3:55 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Coming out of your mouth, Drich.
zing! good one St. imbo
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