Quote:I wonder what those people see that the atheists don't? Wink

Delusions.

Ace- Again, the contradiction is gaping. If humans have such enormous capacity for delusion that far more than half of them are deluded into thinking there is a God, then how can we trust any sort of evidence? Who is to say that the evidence itself is not all a mass delusion?

Cap'n Scarlet- In my experience and understanding Christianity is not an exclusivist faith. To be Christian is to be Christ-like, Christ's message was tolerance and love ergo, Christianity is simply about tolerance and love.

What a horrible message, right?

Oh, and Buddhism is not a religion without a God. Buddha simply discouraged hsi followers from musing on God because the point of Buddhism is that everything is taken care of and you have nothing to worry about but yourself. If there's a God there's a God, if there's nto there's not.

(August 15, 2010 at 1:29 pm)Watson Wrote: Ace- Again, the contradiction is gaping. If humans have such enormous capacity for delusion that far more than half of them are deluded into thinking there is a God, then how can we trust any sort of evidence? Who is to say that the evidence itself is not all a mass delusion?

Again I ask, what contradiction?
Firstly, people believing in some god does not count as evidence. Secondly, "how can we trust any sort of evidence"?
Evidence(verifiable) comes from sight, sound, touch, the ability to measure, test and repeat. That is evidence. That is the kind of evidence I require for me to believe in god's existance.

"In my experience and understanding Christianity is not an exclusivist faith. To be Christian is to be Christ-like, Christ's message was tolerance and love ergo, Christianity is simply about tolerance and love."

Tell that to the crusaders they seem to have missed that message.

^Most unfortunately, yes.

Ace-

*facepalm*

I'm asking you a simple question and you aren't understanding it. If 5 billion out of 6 billion of us are delusional, how can we trust anything that any of us provide as evidence, considering it could all be mass delusion?

(August 15, 2010 at 1:29 pm)Watson Wrote: Again, the contradiction is gaping. If humans have such enormous capacity for delusion that far more than half of them are deluded into thinking there is a God, then how can we trust any sort of evidence? Who is to say that the evidence itself is not all a mass delusion?

Trouble is, religion isn't generally based on evidence. Most people just accept what they're taught. Relatively few have direct experiences of, say, the Virgin Mary, but these mean nothing, as they can be psychologically explained, and they contradict one another. Besides, subjective evidence is very weak compared to scientific evidence which is much more objective and universal.

Quote:In my experience and understanding Christianity is not an exclusivist faith. To be Christian is to be Christ-like, Christ's message was tolerance and love ergo, Christianity is simply about tolerance and love.

Oh, really?

'Leaving that place, Jesus withdrew to the region of Tyre and Sidon. A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, "Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is suffering terribly from demon-possession."

Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, "Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us."

He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."

The woman came and knelt before him. "Lord, help me!" she said.

He replied, "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs." '(Matthew 15:21-28)

Sounds pretty exclusivist to me. Also, John 14:6: 'Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." '

Quote:Oh, and Buddhism is not a religion without a God. Buddha simply discouraged hsi followers from musing on God because the point of Buddhism is that everything is taken care of and you have nothing to worry about but yourself. If there's a God there's a God, if there's nto there's not.

I think you may have misinterpreted Buddhism there, but never mind. We could say the same about Christianity. Ultimately, it's just about saying your soul. Plus, if Buddhism isn't a religion, that decreases the number of people in your argumentum ad populum.

(August 15, 2010 at 1:15 pm)Watson Wrote:

(August 15, 2010 at 1:08 pm)Ace Wrote: [quote='Watson' pid='87163' dateline='1281890358']
So then, here's my argument against atheism; not all the world may be Christian, but just about 5 billion people believe in some form of a God. I wonder what those people see that the atheists don't?

Delusion.

Really? 5 billion people out of 6 billion people are deluding themselves? Every single person and every single experience that they cite as proof of God is just delusion? Do you even realize how unlikely that is?

Quote:The contradiction here is gaping.

There is no contradiction. Just because a majority of people beleive in a religion does not make religion true. If that were the case and if there were more Muslims than Christians (which may happen in years to come) should we all become Muslims? Pls refer to my earlier refutation of your arguments, I'm afraid they don't hold water! Yes most people are deluded, we know that because even if one version of one sect of one religion were true the rest of us were wrong! You cannot hide behind other peoples religion using some abstract concept of god ie the Many roads to god argument. It is intellectually bankrupt.

(August 15, 2010 at 1:43 pm)Watson Wrote: ^Most unfortunately, yes.

Ace-

*facepalm*

I'm asking you a simple question and you aren't understanding it. If 5 billion out of 6 billion of us are delusional, how can we trust anything that any of us provide as evidence, considering it could all be mass delusion?

All depends on the evidence you provide. Most things theists use as evidence aren't evidence to begin with. Don't think it has anything to do with trust but how well one can support one's claims. Was that the answer you were expecting?

Oh and I'm kinda jumping back and forward from web page to web page, so if I miss anything, you'll know why.
Trying to figure out a way to meet up with this girl I like.

All religions that claim to worship a deity whether they are of ancient or modern origin blatantly contradict each other. Christianity and Islam are two of the youngest of the worlds religions and they both gained their popularity at the edge of a sword. The Crusades were not just about spreading religion but rather about conquests, establishing their religion amongst the people they conquered was a secondary goal of the crusaders. Christians won more territory during the crusades and therefore it is logical that they were also the most popular religion in the world.

There is nothing divine about the origins of Christianity nor about its growth, once it was established it became tradition and hence was passed down from generation to generation.

The Omnissunt One-
Nothing is objective, beause it all must be perceived through subjective open-ness and then evaluated as such. True, few have had direct experiences with the Virgin Mary, but the Virgin Mary is not what Christianity is all about. It's all about Jesus and His message. And many people have experience with His message.

On Matthew 15;21-28
I have not read that part of the Bible nor have I gotten t the point where I've even read Matthew. I'll let you know what I think of it when I've read it and comparedit to what I know of real life. All of it.

On John 14:6
And that one is true without being exclusivist at all. Figure it out.

I never said Buddhism wasn't a religion, I said Buddhism wasn't a religion without a God.

Cap'n Scarlet-
I'm not talking about how many people follow a certain religion, I'm talking about how many people believe in some form of God or not.

Ace-
It has everything to do with trust. Would you trust a man who, 9 times out of 10, showed that he was delusional and prone to hallucination if he said he had seen a flying purple elephant? Similarly, would you trust a species out of whom 5 billion of 6 billion claimed they had had experiences with God on anything at all? (Assuming, of course, that the claim that God is real is not true and can be proven as such.)

Good luck with the girl, though, dude!