I will allow you to post a link to the relevant news story, it pertains to the discussion.

As to the rest, Atheists or anti theists are human just like enyone else.

Well yes. The difference is that atheists, or even anti theists, don't have a book that they pretend is the word of God that clearly has extremely cruel and violent edicts in it. So every muslim is supporting the idea that this evil book should be revered. No atheist is in any way supporting anything to do with another atheist who goes nuts.

Of course I don't blame anyone but shooters for any shootings, but anyone who supports any kind of ridiculous notion of faith and magic books keeps these dangerous ideas alive.

Atheism does not have teachings. We don't have a holy book that tells us to kill people who don't share our beliefs. When a muslim kills a non muslim, he can point to a book that tells him his god wants him to do that. When an atheist does it, it's just because there's something wrong with him.

I don't think it's surprising that vehement anti-theism can feed into obsessive and destructive behavior. Anything that has the potential to make someone think they're better than others, and that others are the enemy carries that risk. Whether that's anti-theism, theism, nationalism, etc.

What makes atheism and anti-theism different is that there isn't a cult of personality surrounding it. There's no mechanism that codifies that kind of hate, nor rewards them for acting out on it. That's why things like this are done by lone wolf types. I'd say the majority of anti-theists are also secular humanists, the kinds of people who want to remove religion through education and thinking critically rather than violence. I know I sure am.

But, yeah... anyone can take a belief to violent ends. Atheists and anti-theists aren't immune to that.

(February 15, 2015 at 3:01 pm)Chad32 Wrote: Atheism does not have teachings. We don't have a holy book that tells us to kill people who don't share our beliefs. When a muslim kills a non muslim, he can point to a book that tells him his god wants him to do that. When an atheist does it, it's just because there's something wrong with him.

(February 15, 2015 at 2:48 pm)robvalue Wrote: Well yes. The difference is that atheists, or even anti theists, don't have a book that they pretend is the word of God that clearly has extremely cruel and violent edicts in it. So every muslim is supporting the idea that this evil book should be revered. No atheist is in any way supporting anything to do with another atheist who goes nuts.

Of course I don't blame anyone but shooters for any shootings, but anyone who supports any kind of ridiculous notion of faith and magic books keeps these dangerous ideas alive.

I agree, but surely the Quran doesnt teach them to kill everyone who betrays Mohammed? The muslims who did this are unlike most muslims and shouldn't sum up every single muslims, althought many can be batshit crazy!

(February 15, 2015 at 3:08 pm)Chad32 Wrote: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/...-islam.htm

Islam comes from the same vein as Judaism. Allah and Yahweh are the same person, and Yahweh is one of the most violent people in recorded history. He'll kill you, or have you killed, for just about anything. What makes you think there aren't verses telling muslims to kill people for insulting the Islam equivalent of Jesus?

Damn thats fucked up, you win.

Also, it needs to be pointed out, that the motives for these murders seems to be over a parking spot, not because they were Muslim, or because the shooter was an anti-theist. I am not saying that it wasn't motivated by either of these factors, I am just saying that the evidence suggests that it wasn't.

By all accounts this was a heinous crime. I don't think it was completely religiously motivated. That article leaves out a lot of information.

(February 15, 2015 at 3:04 pm)coolfunkDJ Wrote: I agree, but surely the Quran doesnt teach them to kill everyone who betrays Mohammed?

Sure it does. You're supposed to kill everyone who isn't in the religion with you, including people who leave. This isn't a particularly uncommon command either; christianity has it too, it's just that christians are less likely to take that part literally. They've entered the stage of their religion where all the inconvenient things are to be interpreted, which doesn't appear to be a stage that has fully swept over the younger islamic religion just yet.

Quote:The muslims who did this are unlike most muslims and shouldn't sum up every single muslims, althought many can be batshit crazy!

Here's the thing: there's a difference between the religion, and its adherents. The French shooting doesn't sum up the character of every muslim, but it does sum up the core concepts of that religion. Those muslims that are good people, of which there are many, are that way because they are applying their rationality and compassion to their religion, in varying degrees, and excising those parts of it that conflict with those senses, not the reverse; Islam isn't instilling them with anything moral, they are subtracting the immoral teachings from islam until they produce a religion they find moral.